At the next County Council meeting on 18 September, Council will be presented with a report reviewing options for Policing. Scenario 1: Expand the OPP to Cobourg and Port Hope (Ward 1). Scenario 2: Merge Cobourg Police Service (CPS) and Port Hope Police Service (PHPS) into an amalgamated service and continue with OPP in areas it currently serves. Scenario 3: Continue with the status quo. The decision to ask for a report was at 2023 budget meetings with support by Cobourg Mayor Lucas Cleveland, Port Hope Mayor Olena Hankivsky and Alnwick/Haldimand Township Mayor John Logel. Mayors of other county Municipalities were against. The report updates a 2007 report on the same subject. Given the opposition outside Cobourg and Port Hope, Scenario 2 seems the most likely.
In March 2023, the Cobourg Police Board made it clear that they do not support any further study on County wide policing. That’s before they knew the details of any merger. They decided to not participate (that is, not cooperate) in the study. They possibly thought that OPP would replace them but that seems unlikely since that’s not what Cleveland and Hankivsky seem to have in mind. My report therefore focuses on Scenario 2 since it seems to be the only supported option.
In the interim, in February 2024 (after County Council approved the study), Cobourg Police asked for $34M in Capital to build a new headquarters. However, councillors at a Standing Committee meeting on April 3, 2024 agreed that any decision on merging Police forces should be made before a decision on funding a new Police Building.
So what does the report recommend?
- Each of the three scenarios are legitimate options. Each has strengths and weaknesses from the perspective of governance and service level. However, each is able to deliver “adequate and effective policing”
- It is likely that a merger of CPS and PHPS, while keeping OPP in municipalities currently policed by the OPP (Scenario 2) would lead to efficiencies compared to the status quo. The efficiencies would arise from eliminating redundancies in administrative and command structures plus saving on facilities costs if Cobourg and Port Hope move to a single facility.
- The third-party criminal record check service delivered by CPS and PHPS results in revenue used to offset other police service costs. Revenue in 2023 from record checks was on the order of $6M for Cobourg. For Port Hope it was $1M. The OPP would not continue that service. Thus, the revenue would be lost under Scenario 1
- There are likely cost savings from a new policing model. Savings could arise from either a merger of Port Hope and Cobourg police services or transfer of municipal police service to the OPP.
A formal costing process is required to get a firm comparison of the costs and service levels. That is,
- A formal costing process from the OPP.
- A thorough evaluation of the costs and structure resulting from amalgamation between CPS and PHPS.
- Other police services may be invited to participate in a costing process. Presumably, that’s to quote to do the job. Port Hope and Cobourg police declined to do that in 2007.
In their report, the consultants also note that:
- As per Part IV of the Community Safety and Policing Act, any decision to change local policing arrangements would be a local decision, not a County decision. However, I note that in no case is anyone other than Port Hope and Cobourg thinking of a change. So it only needs Port Hope and Cobourg to decide.
- There are other considerations apart from cost – see the full report in Resources for details.
Estimated Costs
| 1. Expanded OPP | 2. CPS – PHPS Amalgamation | 3. Status Quo | |
| Est. One-Time Costs | $8.8M | $1.5M | $0M |
| Est. 10-Year Cost | $217.0M | $253.5M | $276.5M |
| Total Costs | $225.8M | $255.0M | $276.5M |
For comparison, in 2007, estimated savings for Option 1 were approx. $3.7M per year.
A reminder that the consultant (Strategy Corp) said that a formal costing process is required to get a firm comparison of the costs and service levels. This is phase 2 of the project and an additional cost. At their meeting on September 18, County Council will be asked to approve proceeding with phase 2 – or NOT.
Resources
- Northumberland Policing Study Report (2007)
- County Police Services Review (Report)
- Staff Memo – Police Services Review
Cobourg Blog reports
- Police Review and Other concerns – 1 March 2023
- County looking at Northumberland Police Force – 3 February 2023
- Police want new facility – 19 Feb 2024
- Police Force expansion linked to possible new building – 5 April 2024
Update
17 September, 2024 – 3:52 pm
The Cobourg Police Chief has reacted to the County’s report and told the Police Board that the report contains “exaggerations, misinformation and incomplete assumptions”. The board did not provide any details as to what exactly are the “exaggerations, misinformation and incomplete assumptions”. As a result the Board has asked Mayor Cleveland to seek answers to those concerns and ask that lower tier municipalities’ responsibilities, such as policing, are not politicized by furthering any action with this report. Further, Chief VandeGraaf will endeavour to “appear before Northumberland County Council as a delegation at the meeting of September 18, 2024, to speak in response to the StrategyCorp presentation”.
Download the complete Police Board statement here.
Print Article:
My preference after thought these past days is to have a merged police force with Port Hope, a change of leadership and dropping of the Cobourg Chief as his direction has not taken strong enforcement. Instead we read of his sympathies and he must have given the direction for his officers to be riding these addicts around Cobourg. Been very disappointed in his leadership.
As for the OPP they are a good force but not a local force – I doubt you would find them walking a beat here in Cobourg should they be selected.
Fix the pier first, how long has it been?
Port Hope and Cobourg are both tourist towns with natural resources that draw. Blatantly though both in Port Hope and Cobourg out in the open for everyone to see and no action taken by either police department a group of people netting fish in Port Hope and here in Cobourg a group of teen locals snagging everything they saw. The police are empowered to enforce the fishing regulations but especially here in Cobourg I seldom see it happen with people in the sanctuary regularly. Natural Resources is severely under funded so the enforcement has been placed with the local police. The force in Cobourg I have found is especially vacant about fishing regulations. I am tired of seeing the police ignore issues that are right in your face – what are we paying them for?
Right you are. I’m thinking that the coppers don’t want to participate in apprehending the illegal fishing and would rather have Ministry of Natural Resources do the deed.
I hope the CPS chief does not make a presentation to the County and that he would recuse himself as it would be a conflict of interest for him to do so.
If he does make a presentation as Chief, Town Council should condemn it.
Why condemn it? There are concerns with what is happening that no one seems to be discussing – the most alarming is, why the County is leading this initial discussion and process? Policing is a Municipal accountability not a County accountability. So to quote the DM, the County should stay in its lane.” With the highly politicized 310D, encampment, homelessness, addiction and mental health issues, Cobourg can not afford to muddy the waters as it relates to who owns what.
If not the Chief, who speaks for Cobourg at County Council. Cleveland has stated repeatedly that in County Council he does not represent Cobourg, he represents the best interests of the County. Has Cobourg Council reviewed, questioned, accepted or endorsed the report? Obviously, Cobourg’s Police Services Board does not. It will be Cobourg who bares responsibility and the expense for any change and it will be Cobourg Council who will ultimately held accountable for a change or lack of change. Why is a joint Cobourg/Port Hope police service in the best interest of the County – what County KPI is impacted through this study? #stayinyourlane
This Cobourg Council and its Mayor go from making almost no meaningful decisions whatsoever, to wanting to tackle generational issues like policing and secession. It would appear the desire of some to leave a legacy is outpacing rationale thought and careful consideration.
This issue requires a referendum – there isn’t a local elected official that can be entrusted to make a decision of this magnitude and what is increasingly clear is the County cares very little about the best interest of the taxpayers of Cobourg therefore why in the world would we put our trust in them.
This process should be halted immediately!
See the update above. It seems the Police Board want to give direction to the Mayor when I believe that officially it’s the Council who gives direction to the Police.
JD,
Your update noted that “The board did not provide any details as to what exactly are the “exaggerations, misinformation and incomplete assumptions”. This is critical because a fulsome discussion of the CPSB’s (Chief’s) issues with the report can’t be had without knowing what their issues are. Without the content, it amounts to more grandstanding rather than an honest effort to move the issue forward.
And you were absolutely correct. Vandergraff Grandstanding at its finest.
PART IV
Municipal Policing and Police Service Boards
Methods of Providing Municipal Policing
Methods of providing municipal policing
22 (1) Subject to subsection (2), every municipality may, with the approval of the Minister, do one of the following:
1. Constitute a municipal board to have policing responsibility for the municipality.
2. Enter into a written agreement under section 23 with one or more other municipalities to amalgamate their police services and jointly constitute a municipal board to have policing responsibility for the municipalities.
3. Enter into a written agreement under section 24 with one or more other municipalities to jointly constitute a municipal board to have policing responsibility for the municipalities.
4. Enter into a written agreement under section 26 with another municipality to have that municipality’s municipal board assume policing responsibility for the municipality.
The Community Safety and Police Act says it is the jurisdiction of the municipality to determine policing.
There are multiple options and the reason being to give municipal councils- elected by the people- to provide the best service possible while being fiscally responsible to its constituents.
The CPSB has tried to stymie the study and discussion at every opportunity
Why? Is there something they dont want the public to know about? Does the public have full transparency on how the Criminal Checks fund is managed and distributed. Are they afraid the study will find the bloat and provide where savings can be had.
Again it would be nice to see what the OPP is offering so all can have an apples to apples oranges to oranges comparison.
Any severances could probably be paid out when closing out the Criminal Checks fund acct.
Pete M,
Thanks for the info (Police Act/Municipal Act??) regarding the set up of police services and boards.
You wrote “Does the public have full transparency on how the Criminal Checks fund is managed and distributed.” and “Any severances could probably be paid out when closing out the Criminal Checks fund acct.”
The crimcheck operations budget is part of the cops annual budget and is in the public domain. Further, being part of the TOWN’s financial accounts, the crimcheck accounts are examined during the annual financial audit.
The CPSB is responsible for the police budget (ops & cap) and while “approved” by Counsel, Counsel and the public have no (little??) input into it.
As I noted in a prior comment, Counsel could (should) have control as it appoints 3 of the 5 CPSB members. however, it doesn’t seem to work that way in practice.
The cops capital budget is funded by crimcheck and was not disclosed for 2024. Prior years have been in the $2-300K range.
The balances of the revenue and accumulated surplus (retained earnings/reserve) accounts have not been disclosed.
When “crimcheck started operations, one of the ‘disclosures” made was that a “reserve” would be maintained sufficient to pay crimcheck employees severance should crimcheck cease operations.
Severance for “police” employees would be as provided by contract (union/individual) and funded by the Town (that’s us)
CTA president Dennis Nabieszko circulated a 2015 National Post article outlining the $400K severance paid to the Ptbro Police chief and deputy when the Peterborough-Lakefield police service was de-amalgamated. ( https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/a-contract-is-a-contract-say-police-chiefs-who-collected-400k-in-severance-though-still-employed )
Bryan
Community safety and Police Act 2019 is the legislation.
Sorry I may not have described as well as you, but it is the reserves I was refering to for severance of the ” business” staff..
The OPP will probably take all current sworn members unless something in personal files that would nullify them as a suitable candidate.
They would probably offer spots to chief and deputy as inspectors with OPP- this us based on previous take overs. I doubt though that current Chief would take offer and opt for severance.
As for the severance in Prbo .it was more of a divorce between two councils. The result being Ptbo Police would provide contract services to the village of Lakefield and Lakefield would not be an equal partner with members on the board
https://www.blueline.ca/peterborough_suing_its_top_cops-3425/
Deputy Chief Farquharson is now Chief of Port Hope and Chief Murray Rodd was just sworn in as new chief in Belleville this past week.
As for Council and the appointments on the CPSB; are they voicing what council isnt saying publicly or operating their own agenda separate from Council?
Council can and should be asking about community safety and what police are doing . They just cant dictate how the police are to deliver.
With the recent renewal if the Chiefs contract the Board and Council are satisfied with what the Chief is doing. If they werent they would have conveyed to current that no renewal would be offered and sought out new chief.
Pete M,
The point of the National Post’s article was that severance was due even though the chief and deputy were not out of a job. All that happened was they each had a new employer. The same would be true if CPS employees were transferred (hired) by the OPP. There would be a change in employer but no period of unemployment.
You note that Chief Rodd was just sworn in as Belleville’s chief. He came out of retirement to take the post. At the same time, his wife, who is (was??) the CEO of the St. Joseph’s at Fleming LTC, is in danger of being fired as a result of abuse issues at the LTC
About a year later, Ptbro sued the the chief and deputy for failing to advise the Town that their contracts included severance provisions and further, the chief and deputy failed to include a severance amount in the “de-amalgamation” cost estimate. Ptbro claims that had they (Council) known of this additional significant cost, they may not have proceeded with the de-amalgamation.
https://www.blueline.ca/peterborough_suing_its_top_cops-3425/#:~:text=PETERBOROUGH%20%E2%80%93%20The%20City%20of%20Peterborough,to%20the%20pair%20last%20year.
I wonder if this is related to tomorrow’s Special Council Meeting consisting of only a closed session to consider “advice that is subject to solicitor-client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose (s. 239 (2) (f)).”? It is indeed interesting that the CPSB is giving direction to Council yet Council (their overseer) never gives direction to the CPSB. It seems almost as absurd as staff instructing management regarding whether they will work from home or office.
I support the officers of CPS! I know some personally and have interacted with others at various times. There are good people working in the Service. I don’t believe any of the comments we see in this blog are meant to disparage them or suggest that they aren’t doing their jobs to the best of their ability. Criminal law is established and amended Federally and all policing services are expected to enforce these laws appropriately. There aren’t different laws that the OPP can enforce, that the CPS can’t.
However in my opinion, the most significant change that needs to take place in advance of any change to our Municipal policing service, is a change in the Federal government. The belief is, the Conservatives will strengthen laws and judicial system which should lead to better enforcement outcomes and more serious consequences for criminals. Jail not bail.
Also, Cobourg Council and the Board are ultimately responsible for determining fiscal policy for the Municipality and for the CPS. The Chief is responsible for operational execution within the policy framework including resource management. So we can criticize and blame the Chief for a lack of fiscal restraint (this is likely justified) however Council and the Board approve the budget. Did they demand budget cuts or zero increases?
There has been discussion about the number of CPS officers that are on stress leave – what evidence is there to suggest that an OPP service will experience fewer mental health concerns? In 2021, 30% of vacancies in the understaffed OPP were because of long term medical leave. Also, has anyone looked at the new OPP collective agreement – wages set to increase approximately 15.5% over the 4-year deal.
I’m all for improving policing in Cobourg however cost should not be the determining factor and frankly I think there are several other actions that should take place in advance of an irreversible decision like eliminating the CPS – (1) a Federal leadership change (2) strengthen our Laws and judicial system (3) NEW CPS Board Chair and fiscal policy/mandate (4) potentially a CPS leadership change to ensure the CPS mandate and outcomes align with what the taxpayers want
Confused.
VandeGraff said he was “one of the very first police chiefs in the Province of Ontario to agree with defunding the police”.
“Defund my budget and give it to every social service…”
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2024/05/16/cobourg-police-chief-holds-town-hall-style-meeting-at-palisade-gardens-in-response-to-concerns-from-the-community/
This is UNACCEPTABLE.
It appears that we are to defend and do the policing ourselves then.
Defund police and turn it over to “social services” ?
I’m sure that will solve the problem as the homeless will gladly accept social services personnel /recommendations at their campsite(s) their and abide by the law.🤨
Leslie,
To me, it appears that the Chief is grandstanding. Making an outlandish comment, knowing there will be no pushback from the audience…..a TRUMP move
In many ways, the police service is well positioned to provide some (most??) of the “on the street” services. Instead of Cobourg taxpayers footing the bill, the province and NC should pay the cops for the services provided.
Yes Ken, I know the Prov and NC get funded by us.
I would support amalgamation with PH police or the OPP. The status quo is untenable. I think the current CPS has largely become ineffectual for one reason or another. My only stipulation re a merger with PH would be that the current leadership of the Cobourg force be given their walking papers.
Are_n:
The Cobourg Police Service Board is pleased to announce the renewal of Chief of Police Paul VandeGraaf’s contract until 2029. After careful consideration and evaluation, the Board has unanimously agreed to extend his tenure, recognizing his exceptional leadership and commitment to our community.
https://cobourgpoliceservice.com/2024/07/15/chief-of-the-cobourg-police-service-contract-renewed-until-2029/
With this extension being provided does that prevent Cobourg switching to OPP or other provided?
And if a contract was made with OPP does that mean the CPS Police Chief would still be entitled to his salary until 2029? Last I saw on the Sunshine list the Police Chief was paid about $200,000 annually.
Ken – would you know? Or anyone else on the Blog?
Not $200k but only $197,420!
I have seen no details of the contractual provisions. Why renew for 5 years when changes are being contemplated? I suppose that is part of Cobourg’s Opacity Policy. Plus, it demonstrates a complete lack of oversight of the PSB by our elected representatives.
Despite Bryan’s very valid points on the positive effect that the criminal records check program has on the police budget the majority of the constituency in Cobourg feel let down and have no confidence in the CPS board and the Police leaders to stop the increased crime in our town. The boots on the ground officers take direction from the senior management team and board, so this dissatisfaction is not on them. Cobourg police service board and senior management team do not support the study , apparently they have no interest in cost effective/ efficient public service!!!!
Having 3 Police forces servicing Northumberland County’s population of 80,000 doesn’t seem to be the most cost-effective/ efficient way to provide Policing to our area.
Allowing this study to move forward makes sense. Let’s find the best option which may include a regional police service similar to the Durham Region model, this would keep all that revenue from police checks coming in so it can be used to offset the very expensive police budget!!!!!
Mark,
Part of the problem in this CPS/”NCPS”/OPP discussion is that the information is fragmented and difficult to compare due to lack of standard formats and metrics. The CPS says it supports transparency, yet they don’t disclose the amount of the crimcheck revenue (est $6M??). How much was the 2024 CPS capital budget? How many officers are on leave due to PTSD and what is the cost?
Analysis is difficult due to the failure to match revenue and costs. For example, the CPS 2023 annual report (https://cobourgpoliceservice.com/annual-reports/ ) pg 14 states that the CPS received $863K in grant funding. This is good news. There is little disclosure on where the money was spent (ops, cap??) and how general police costs are affected.
Similarly, the CPS 2023 annual report, pg 38, presents a range of 2023 crime stats vs 2022. from this, It is easy to see why there are many comments about the CPS “doing nothing”
Consideration should be given to the gross policing cost as well as the Cobourg taxpayer funded amount (gross less revenues). The last time (2018 or so) I did this type of analysis, it showed that, by any metric, CPS costs are considerably more (30%+) than other NC municipalities. My gut feel is that this hasn’t changed and is likely worse.
Thank you Bryan, the information you continually provide sure enlightens us to the facts! I support police , I more importantly support a cost effective/ efficient public service. Hiding information not being transparent is problematic. The many many conversations I have had with residents and business owners continually points to dissatisfaction with the CPS board and the senior leadership team. The feeling I get is it maybe time for a change!!!!!
Mark,
An important change needed is for Cobourg Council to “take control” of the CPSB.
In theory, Council should control the CPSB as it appoints 3 of the 5 board members: 2 members of Council and 1 citizen. These 3 should all be playing for “team Cobourg”.
In practice, it isn’t working that way. Council periodically gets fluffy verbal update reports, but never (in my recollection) does Council give its CPSB appointees directions.
It appears that the appointees march to the beat of the Chief’s drum
This is particularly apparent at budget time. The cops budget just keeps growing with no (little??) pushback from Council.
Bryan – this article just released in Todays Northumberland supports what you are saying and why Cobourg should be concerned with the CPS.
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2024/09/17/cobourg-police-services-board-denounces-merger-option/
Again it appears the Police Chief runs Cobourg which is not right. Also, note the pitch for the $34 million new building – no hint of compromising using V13 etc.
Whomever they choose I would like to see police walking the beat, familiar with the people they are policing – who are the problems, what are the problem areas and take police action not social worker style action.
It worked in the area I grew up in, not Rosedale. The Division there knew who was who in their district and who needed more careful attention.
Every non management police officer that works for Cobourg police service are hoping that OPP takeover Cobourg as they would still be guaranteed their job and get a raise in pay and benefits, as OPP are the highest paid service in Ontario.
Yet can still provide more service and equipment for less to the Tax payers of Cobourg
They have a station here , the man power and Offices / Stations all along the 401 and north in Campbellford, Peterborough ETC ETC to draw from
The only logical alternative is to go with the OPP. According to many of the comments on this site, this would be the preferred option. If the council members don’t have the will to pursue changes, call a referendum and let taxpayers decide. In terms of level of policing services, there will be no significant reduction as long as serious crime is addressed. Its currently a waste of time to report many instances of theft and vandalism. This is generally referred to as social disorder by the police chief. Drug pushers and users are every where! A disproportion number of police officers are off work when compared to other occupations. The police services board just rubber stamps everything and appears to have no clout (influence or power). Enough of this empire building! Don’t even consider the option of merging with Port Hope police – just building a bigger empire.
But OPP would lose the $6 Million per year benefit of the record check business plus put those workers out of a job. They have to be connected to a Police Force to be valid and the OPP would not continue that business.
What workers? Our current CPS? They need to be out of a job. I called last week about getting police in the area while kids were walking to school. I was told “there’s a crossing guard there.” So if a crossing guard can apparently handle a major safety issue while kids are walking to school why do we even have cops? I was completely flabbergasted. Passing off responsibility to a crossing guard?
Catherine,
The workers JD referred to are the civilian crimcheck staff, not part of the “regular” police force.
Ok thank you for clarifying.
PUSH 1 FOR THIS , 2 for that — Please Hold
its not WORKING !!!
Sandpiper,
???? what is your point?
Correct me if I am wrong, John, but, doesn’t that money generally go towards unnecessary expenditures on questionable items such as EVs and other mobility devices to name a few things. As I understand it, none of this money is controlled by Council and certainly doesn’t offset unsustainably tax increases in regards to funding policing.
If the $6M were not sourced from the business unit, the Police would still spend the money and it would come from our taxes.
All the more reason to go with the OPP! Based on figures that have been cited, the cost would be considerably less than continued funding of the Cobourg police. We would not have to come up with millions to provide a new facility as well. Going forward, the accumulative savings would be considerable.
JD,
Please don’t confuse revenue with net profit. The crimcheck business may have revenue of about $6M, but it also has expenses, mainly wages.
For 2024, about $2.75M of the crimcheck profits (est $3M) are budgetted to be used to fund police capital expenses and operations. Without the crimcheck business, Cobourg taxpayers would be required to pony up almost $3M extra.
The $3M amount noted above is a bit aggressive. The 2024 police ops budget shows $2.1M transfer from crimcheck to police ops. I estimate an additional $200K for capital expenses. There may be other expenses funded by crimcheck profits. I believe the budgeted general police cost is understated and the actual will be about $200K+ higher, So the police funding from crimcheck is likely to be about $2.5M+, not $3M as stated above.
Without the crimcheck profit, Cobourg taxpayers would have to pay an additional $2.5M+
But are we concerned about Good Policing , Safety, Crime reduction
in our Home Community that the present situation of Policing is not
handeling or just a few jobs that those people can get requalified & updated for . Priorities not Bleeding Heart Policing
This is why the CPSB should have participated in the County police eview. This would allow everyone to see how the CPS compares to the OPP and what current costs are and what they could be under the OPP. Are we getting real value for our tax dollars?
Please OPP!!!! If they even show up and do nothing it will be more than our current police. I’m tired of being sick to my stomach from the stress of living near the encampment. These cops think it’s funny. News flash it’s not. I hope the entire CPS loses their jobs to OPP. They have let us down sooooooo badly. I find it so funny that the people trying to shove this drug crap down our throats might all eat their words. Didn’t think we were paying attention I guess? GWC, the police chief, certain councillors and the county all thought they could push their agenda and we’d never notice. How’s that working out for you?? OPP all the way! Come on Cobourg let’s show them what we think!
Another consideration, apart from OPP costing Taxpayers less, is that Leadership (Mayor/Council) have a say/input.
Now, while Leadership’s mandate is to represent its Constituents, they have no say in the CPS annual budget as the Police Chief states either accept it as presented or reject the entire budget. Also, Leadership has no influence over Cobourg’s policing methods (social services) – which don’t seem to be working. The Police Chief essentially runs Cobourg.
Under an OPP jurisdiction, Leadership would have a say/input into costing and the direction (services) that Taxpayers want, as they are there to represent those who voted them in.
All those in favour of OPP, 👍, contact Council and schedule a delegation to Council. OPP much better option.
Go OPP, the best option to get rid of the local “Empire Builders” and the useless Cobourg Police Board. Start voting with your pocketbook.
The issue with the OPP is if anything is happening outside of Cobourg, they will use our resources and leave us short.
All I know is that I feel like I live in New York City now. The number of police and fire sirens in Cobourg day to day is now a major source of noise pollution every single day, multiple times per day, especially downtown Cobourg. I understand the need for urgency but the increasing daily noise (from specifically police cruisers) are now so over the top (especially in neighbourhoods closer to the Cobourg police station.) I would be interested in the statistic on how often the Cobourg police use their sirens on a daily and weekly basis in downtown Cobourg?
As a child playing with our toy cars did we not always like to make the sound of a siren and pretend to be in a police car? Not all of us grow up.
… ya and we like to go vroom vroom – and even less seem to have outgrown that!
My vote would be to go OPP Northumberland.
Failing that, merge PH & CPS.
Taxpayers of Cobourg and Port Hope are definitely not receiving value for their money with the Status Quo.
Put the 34m towards a rehab centre. Why do cops need a bigger ( different) place. There is no one in the jails because they release everyone.
Maybe you should have gone down for the tour at the Police station. Building over 100 years old
Many people in Cobourg live in 100 + year old houses and they are happy they do!
Open Brookeside
Hardly a comparison. 100 year old houses don’t have 30 plus people in them and needed equipment. Again go for a tour. Before you can comment on something you have never seen go see.
I thought Cobourg was all about Keeping Heritage ???
Debbie Barnes,
The province is responsible for rehab centres, not Cobourg.
As for a new police station, V13 is a good option for a satellite station. V13 has never delivered on its mandate of new businesses and jobs for Cobourg.
Close V13. Renovate it as needed.
Save a pile of money.
PLEASE ! What is V13 ? All who write in should identify the full name of most things before using a short form. For example Children’s Aid Society (CAS) then go ahead and use the short form when you refer to the same company/organization again. You are probably quite familiar with V13 but probably many/most readers are not.
Thanks.
Good point. The short form “V13” has been in use for some time and it’s easy to forget that not everyone is familiar with the term.
V13 is the short form for the Town’s business incubator (tech and innovation development) centre: Venture 13. The centre opened in May 2018, with much hoopla and promise of new businesses and jobs in Cobourg. Sadly, the promise has not been met. Not even close.
After almost 7 years in operation, Cobourg has failed to learn the same lesson that Port Hope learned with its IdeaHub. Like V13, the IdeaHub failed to deliver the promised new businesses and jobs. In 2016, after 6 years of failed operations, Port Hope closed it down.
In spite of the failure to deliver (new businesses & jobs) and costing the Cobourg taxpayers upwards of $1M in capital costs (start up/renovations) and over $1.3M in operations to date, V13 continues to flail away.
Too many cops, too little results… go OPP and let the province pay for it. Just as you are now paying for the Don Valley Parkway and Gardiner Expressway and billion dollar Ontario Line in Toronto. Why is Cobourg Police responding to the encampment which is a provincial property (OPP) at your additional expense? Police do not exist for your protection but for protection of state, commerce, private interests and corruption. Much like government, of any affiliation. Save yourself $34M+++ on a new police station for them all to hide in… Shouldn’t they all be out on the street anyway?
Go OPP? AND is that STILL Tax Dollars?
Less $ for Cobourg and Port Hope. Likely more for the smaller towns that don’t want to merge. They know they already have a good thing going.
As a veteran of least three Cobourg/Port Hope amalgamation discussions, in the last forty years I would point out that when comparing apples to apples it comes down to one logical conclusion – who will provide the best LOCAL service, in urban areas, and that is demonstrated by response times. The OPP failed to convince it could meet the local standards last time around let’s see what they come up with this time.
A “veteran” ?…..misuse of the term.
As a “Veteran” with my Army service I don’t claim exclusivity on the Noun, but as a veteran meaning that I have endured three discussions of amalgamation/cooperation I feel that the word is appropriate.
As a retired career military veteran I have always affiliated that term only with the armed forces not anything else.
I just learned something about “civvy street” “.usage.🤔
Bill – wondering, what do you call a long time NHL hockey player?
Thank you for your service!
As I’m only into British rugby and football (not soccer) …….😎
In my experience having had to call the police three times in the last three months, they respond very quickly, but they do next to nothing when they arrive.
OPP convincing us of their worth and ability shouldn’t be a problem this time
as the John st Resident stated our Local Police may show up but do little
I believe that’s a experience shared by many here over the last few years in Cobourg. No nonse Policing is whats required here and now .
Solution,
Merge Port Hope & Cobourg Police Services.
Build New Joint Police Station on Highway 2 half way between the 2 Towns
Buy a Tim Hortons Franchise located right next to new cop Shop.
Make money from Tim Hortons & Police Record Checks to pay for new building Mortgage over a 25 Amortization period.
Sell Cobourg Police Station for Heritage Condos
Sell Port Hope Police Station for a Motel next to Hampton Inn.
Voila. All problems (including Police Chief) solved on a cost free basis! Except sickness and inflated Salaries.
Over to you for thoughts.
And the current police chief has gotta go. I hope so badly he loses his job he has failed us.
Ben too many of these arm chair critics have no idea what having the OPP would mean locally. You are right we have been through this before and it was loud and clear cobourg would not benefit from changing. I wish these critics would take a look at the restrictions imposed on our police as to what they can and cannot do. The laws are set and they must follow them. If they try amalgamation between port hope and cobourg believe me if you thought the hospital was a divider between the two communities try removing the police forces. I believe the OPP will give you what ever figures they want but it would not be long before the budget would surpass what we are paying now.
Exactly. People think they know everything in this day and age.