It turned out that the “Town Hall” meeting on Wednesday at the Best Western did not have any audience participation – it was just an information session. The event was organized by James Bisson and he spent two hours providing information on the encampment at Brookside with the hope that it would stir up action by citizens. James made it clear that it was a County and Provincial matter and not a Town responsibility although the only acknowledged political representation at the meeting was from Councillor Adam Bureau and Deputy Mayor Nicole Beatty. Although James provided a good amount of factual information, he placed most of the blame for the encampment on drug addiction. He believes that all that’s needed is to solve the drug problem. The event was live streamed on facebook but the resulting video is not available.
About 250 attended the meeting although the audience could have been much bigger – many were turned away when the room reached capacity. But although the meeting was informative, it included James’ opinions, talked about unrelated issues and questions from the audience were not allowed. This meant that many people felt that it was a waste of time. Some (but not all) felt it was slanted to sound like it came from the Green Wood coalition. James tried to show some videos but was unsuccessful (Pete Fisher’s Video was one – you can see it here). James has a web site (https://wearecobourg.ca/ ) – it was updated late Thursday. There is also a facebook page here although it’s “paused” so is essentially inactive.
James did make clear that there are really several issues: drug addiction, crime, mental health and homelessness. Most people already know that but James thought that the main problem is drug addiction so he focused on that.
Some in the audience felt that James was positioning himself to run for Politics although it seems few in the audience would vote for him. Overall, it’s safe to say it was not a successful meeting and a disappointment to many of those attending.
Resources
- Pete Fisher You Tube Interview of encampment leader
- We are Cobourg Web site – now updated
- Facebook page – “paused”
- Previous Cobourg Blog report – see comments on this post for more on what attendees thought of it.
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Also a lot of these people don’t want to live by rules from laces like the Transition House. So don’t whine about not having a place to go.
I notice 2 neighbours getting security systems today, booming business! Items from my front gardens are being stolen, out of range of cameras. They will be at the encampment, suggestions on retrieval?
Thanks, Bryan, I just need to understand the chain of command.
Michael Lindsay is the President and CEO of IO
David Lindsay is the chair of the Board of Directors of IO, he reports directly to the M of I Ms. Surma, IO does not need to communicate with anyone other than Ms. Surma.
So if the Ministry posted the eviction notice then I know she is now aware of the situation.
The buck stops here.
IF, we are awaiting the Kingston court decision, the two day hearing wrapped up Oct. 30th, and if the judge rules that the city can receive a court order to remove the tents etc. will this decision leap frog to our county or will we have to go to court based on the Kingston judges ruling?
I have a great deal of respect for David Piccini MPP. I have followed his political career for a while now and know him to be a hard working, dedicated politician.
I have heard him say on Cogeco’s YourTV they are looking at the Waterloo decision, and looking at other things in regards to Brookside. I understand he has to stay in his lane, as he is not the M of I but he works under the same roof at Queens Park with Ms Surma MPP and I am sure he has talked to her about the encampment in Cobourg.
YourTV broadcast Tuesday at 7:00 pm – Piccini- I hope Mark Rockburn will ask him if we are waiting for the Kingston decision. 7:30 – MP Lawrence remains silent.
Small Town Ontario,
I am not clear if a favourable ruling regarding Kingston would overturn Waterloo or simply be a “local” ruling Both cases were/are being heard at the Ontario Supreme Court. If Kingston was being tried at the Ontario Court of Apeals (higher court) then the ruling could have more impact.
Below are two links on the issue which you may find informative:
https://omssa.com/blog-waterloo-encampment-decision-may-2023.php
https://www.kingstonist.com/news/belle-park-encampment-future-on-trial-day-two/#google_vignette
I hope Mr. Draper will provide that video for us to watch as well. Not everyone can access Your TV. Just my opinion, but I believe that the Kingston decision will set a new precedent within the court system which will give municipalities in Ontario the go ahead with court orders. But, also there is a very strong movement/lobbying of government from human rights activists who believe that “housing is a right”. This is influencing leadership decisions all over Ontario. Sad that we are not recognized as also having rights.
It seems we are told that Infrastructure Ontario is now making the decisions on this provincial land called Brookside.
My research tells me that IO is a crown corporation owned by the provincial government. They provide property management services for government owned and leased properties. One of the top 10 priorities is to develop provincial land holdings. Makes sense because Brookside is provincial real estate that is in transition.
Governance-control-the agency IO is accountable to the Ontario Legislature through the Minister of Infrastructure and reports to the Minister through the chair of the Board.
The Minister of Infrastructure is Kinga Surma and she is MPP for Etobicoke Centre.
So who posted the eviction notice? Who signed it? IO or MPP’s ministry? Who enforces the eviction notice? Is the Ontario Trespass Act enforced by the OPP? If so, why is it not being enforced?
Small Town Ontario,
Brookside is provincial property as you noted and the province (IO??) posted the eviction notice. The province has also failed to enforce it.
The most likely reason is the “Waterloo” decision which provided that the encampment people can’t be evicted without being provided with an equal or better alternative.
Kingston is challenging the decision, so the situation is in limbo until the Kingston court rules.
I see the CPS reports in Northumberland News the recovery of 60 bikes here in Cobourg. No reporting of who was in possession or where the bikes were recovered.
https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/close-to-60-bikes-have-been-recovered-cobourg-police-working-to-return-items-to-rightful/article_f82d981a-9cfa-5ad2-901a-b73adf495ea4.html
I was at the Tim Hortons yesterday while a camper was in the washroom. Felt like riding her ‘abandoned’ bike home. It was laying on the ground outside, that’s abandoned right?
Just a thought, if Brookside was under “construction” and the adjacent land was being “landscaped”, wouldn’t these areas be considered construction areas and off limits to people except the “construction company” doing the work.
There must be a number of ways to make areas restricted and therefore trespassers would be legally removed?
There are so many things that could be done to make the Brookside camping life difficult. Hang spot lights from the fence on all night, play Mozart for a few hours every night, actually enforce the no trespassing by either not allowing any cars on the Brookside driveway or grass or force all “visitors “ to sign in (name, license plate, reason for visit, time in and out), or put the property for sale. When a developer buys it becomes private property and then easy to enforce no trespassing. Bylaw enforce property and lot standard bylaws forcing IO to clean up the mess. As town residents become more and more frustrated and angry the powers that be do little.
Sell the property.
Just another day in Cobourg. What is disturbing is the non response (alls good) by Rev. Ellis and CPS. This needs to be taken more seriously.
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/11/10/two-security-guards-sent-to-hospital-following-drug-poisoning-at-the-warming-hub/
Where are the supervisors of this warming hub? Both members of GWC I believe. When I hear seniors telling me that live in this area that they don’t go outside after 4 o’clock because that’s when “they” come out. Why are drugs even allowed in this church? Why can’t GWC clean up the bus shelter across the street that is littered every single day with drug paraphernalia, vomit and garbage? Where is GWC in all this mess? Missy McLean? Go get your water bottles and clean up the dirty needles in our once beautiful town so people can take their dogs for a walk on the board walk. Does anyone know if narcan will work for dogs?
Beware dog owners of dirty needles under the leaves along the boardwalk.
Niell Ellis has enough sense to create some rules at Transition House, but not enough sense to enforce rules at the warming hub or acknowledge that there is a problem with behaviour.
I wonder how badly St. Peter’s needs their portion of the $465,000 (rent and staffing) that Transition House will spend on the Hub over this winter. Just an observation, but I think our local churches are desperate for funding to stay afloat, maintaining their buildings and paying salaries. I wonder if this is the underlying reason for Niell being unable to raise the barrier that is seemingly so low that absolutely any behaviour is acceptable. If there are 19 empty beds at Transition House why do they still collect $2.4 million in funding. I’m just trying to understand how this all works, and why someone would come to the conclusions they do. What’s the incentive for rewarding poor behaviour. I am hopeful someone more informed than myself can add input.
It all just seems so counter to common sense.
You are right, there is no common sense in this situation … I truly believe Mervin that the far-left Human Rights activists are winning and leaders are afraid of going up against them. I recommend you read this article –https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/morning-file/the-homelessness-industry-is-booming-and-theres-big-money-in-it/
Apparently the homelessness industry is a good way to make money these days, and the gov’t just keeps funding them.
OMG that is awful! I feel so much for our paramedics who are being so over-worked at this point. I hope the guards are ok …
A lot of talk about where the encampment should go. Almost all of these campers have been unable to live in a way that is acceptable to those who have given them housing, be it family, Transition House or Motels. The social safety nets in Cobourg have been used, are still available, and would exceed expectations almost anywhere else in the world. Now, the same people who gave them the housing they were removed from, are telling the public that they need to be kind without expectations of any kind. This mindset is what got these people here in the first place. These campers are not humbly asking for another chance to prove they can be better ‘neighbours’. They are out there with a sense of entitlement that has been amplified by local groups that their behaviour is not the problem, it’s society.
The message should be consistent and simple. Use the resources available to you, if you can’t conduct yourself accordingly, there is nothing else for you.
No one deserves anything. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in social safety nets, empathy or generosity. It means that if you need help, you accept it with gratitude and respect it. This encampment, for me, is about enablers and entitlement. Let’s not continue the cycle of enabling the poor behaviour that hurts the campers, their neighbours and the community.
Rational, I very much agree. Keep the focus simple.
To answer Bryan’s question, 23 people are currently living at Brookside. All 23 have addictions. This was proclaimed by encampment resident Chance Brown (aka ACE) who was a “guest” speaker at the Port Hope Buddy Bus meeting last evening. Ms. London Burchat was also a guest speaker — I presume as an 18 year old Social Services student for a few months?
Metrics and documentation are essential. Cobourg has 23 persons with addictions refusing assistance by our Social Services Department. The most important question is WHY reject existing Professional supports?
Grassroots Gatekeepers? Barriers to accessing Professional Supports. Why would Grassroots Gatekeepers hinder people from seizing our existing and tax paid “Safety Net”?
With Rights comes Responsibilities —always the 2 together. As Kevin notes, “Are we to provide housing for people who want to share a room with their partner and get high instead of getting a job?”.
Leslie,
Thanks for the info.
23 people seems to be a very small number to deal with.
If the “want help” people have moved out of “Brookside”, then the ones left have rejected help.
The Waterloo decision is somewhat predicated on the encampment people wanting help and are willing to move to suitable housing alternatives.
Why should the “rejected help” people benefit from the Waterloo decision?
I’d like to suggest that the reason the enablers or gatekeepers are hindering them from getting help is because these people are holding out for bigger and better permanent housing and benefits. A form of blackmail, and no doubt to use this as an opportunity to slander the Mayor.
Exactly and we know who the perpetrators are: Greenwood Coalition, Missy McLean also with Moms Against the Harm and Tweak Easy which local business owners condone such as Theresa Rickerby
And just so everyone is aware as Christmas shopping is starting – Theresa Rickerby owns SPARK toy store and has operated the Tweakeasy tent out of the back several times, even though the other businesses owners is the area were upset about this. Money talks. I’m all for supporting local but I’ll NEVER shop at spark. I’d rather give my money to Walmart than her at this point (most toys cheaper at Walmart anyway). So – although most people on here are probably aware, for those that aren’t, DO NOT shop at SPARK if you are against the drug enabling and the safe injection sites.
Thanks for letting us know that all of the residents are addicts. The fact that a very large percentage of the homeless across Canada are addicts, is often conveniently ignored by advocates who claim that housing is a human right. There is an opinion piece in Tor. Star today
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/homeless-encampments-won-t-go-away-anytime-soon-so-here-s-what-cities-should-do/article_0397cbcd-d820-5e1b-97fa-866bd6079b83.html written by Leilana Farha who is the director of The Shift and wrote guidelines for municipalities to follow when dealing with encampments. She strongly believes housing is a human right, and that homelessness is due to a housing shortage. In her writings, she does not address the addiction issue. From my own personal experience, I know addiction is a huge component; my sister and her son are both opioid addicts. For the past decade I have done everything I can possibly do to help them– housing them in my own home, given lots of money, emotional support, etc. and in return received death threats when I finally could not do it any longer due to my own mental health. Drug addiction changes people– my nephew was kind, intelligent and sensitive, enrolled in an engineering program at university when he became an addict. Now he is living in a parking garage in Tor. because he has been banned (due to violent behaviour) from the shelters; my sister lives in a shelter which allows her to continue using. Based on my experience, addicts can become entitled and do believe it is their right to receive the specific type of help they want (with no responsibility). I think the 23 people here, want to be provided with housing where they can make the rules and will not be pressured to quit drugs. Unfortunately, they are encouraged by misguided advocates, and the inaction of the province and town.
Your last paragraph hit the nail on the head here.
The financial support for the enablers such as Greenwood Coalition and Moms against the harm and the legal help centre have to end. They enable illegal drug users and provide no rehabilitation to get off drugs.
Chance aka ace is also Mr graffiti artist around town, is this not vandalism? Arrest him for that.
On another note as I sit in my house tonight listening to revving vehicles driving around. This is chaos in Cobourg. Perhaps Trudeau could call in the military because on his watch it is acceptable to use illegal drugs.
We have those revving vehicles driving around our section of the downtown once every hour in a type of modified rally for which Councillor Brian Darling had good cause to suggest action.
The Citizen Town Hall brought hundreds of people of diverse opinions into one room without conflict. It was designed to show elected officials and those in authority the power of the people and their frustration with the “system”. It also affirmed our collective commitment to democracy and the values we share. I laid out the basics of how we got here and where we are. What we need to do pressure those who represent us act in our best interests. There are 2 areas our community needs to focus on in November
Law and Order – the leadership of the CPS needs to address our concerns and answer questions from the public. Delegations are ineffective as those officiating have no obligation to respond. The only way is to have people show up and demand a response peacefully but with determination. With the level of crime in some of our neighborhoods I’m guessing there’s quite a bit of determination! I’m planning to hold an open mic, summarize the feedback and do another delegation to the CPSB.
The County – The Encampment has to be dealt with ASAP. That is an accident just waiting to happen. I was planning a delegation, but you have to go through committee. The Social Services committee which is responsible for homelessness won’t meet until Jan?!!!. I can assure you those behind the encampment are feeling bold. Why wouldn’t they when they held the police and 3 levels of government at bay for over 2 months despite an eviction order that was never enforced, right?
Write an email to the County CAO with a simple but poignant message:
I live in Cobourg and pay taxes. You are responsible for the encampment. Do your job, use my taxes and move that encampment away from residential areas now. If you don’t, please resign and we’ll get some who will.
200 taxpayers need to send that message. Imagine being at work and 200 separate emails like that come in in just a few days. Ouch!
I have waited a week to see if our officials understood what we are capable of and the best they could so was The Dutch Oven? Hmm…and I’m a dud? Politicians are hoping I’m toast and by you ripping me, they think there’s nothing to worry about. The last thing they want is a repeat. This time, the people will speak, not me. We need another strong showing to let them know this is far from over.
BTW I have no interest in running for office or power grab. I’m just the messenger…
James,
Some interesting comments.
Agree that delegations are often useless unless there is a delegation action (an action motion, not just a receive for info).
You wrote
“Write an email to the County CAO with a simple but poignant message:
I live in Cobourg and pay taxes. You are responsible for the encampment. Do your job, use my taxes and move that encampment away from residential areas now.”
The County has no authority (nor does Cobourg) to remove the Brookside encampment. which is a PROVINCIALY owned property. The Province posted an eviction notice but has failed to enforce it, most likely due to the “Waterloo” court decision. Kingston is challenging this, but until there is a decision in that case, the Waterloo decision remains in effect.
I believe that one of the comments on this blog noted that the County’s social service staff have met with the encampment people (all??) to determine their specific needs and offer specific issue help. Some have refused help, some have accepted help.
Without providing identity specifics, the County should make their findings public:
how many people in the encampment,
how many interviewed
how many in the various “issues” categories: refuse help, will accept help, economic homelessness, drug addiction, mental health, medical, abusive relationship
how many provided with assistance
how many moved out of the encampment as a result to the County’s help
Communication such as this would demonstrate that things really are being done and there are some successes
Communication such as this would enable the ability to prove to the courts that help has been available, offered and refused. Therefore the remaining Encampment can now be dismantled, the people moved to other shelter programs that do not have a criteria of abstinence while not under their shelter roof nightly. Toronto has many such facilities and likely other larger centres not far from Cobourg. In addition scrutiny as to whether these people are migrating from other centres that have services and return them to their own jurisdictions. I believe that was the last portion of the postings Bryan.
Good points! Further, in regards to Kingston– the councillors there apparently have some backbone and voted 10 to 2 to discontinue their Tiny Home project. Link to interesting CBC article which covers their reasons for the decision: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/kingston-tiny-sleeping-cabins-council-votes-to-wind-down-program-for-homeless-1.7022172
It is my opinion that more and more communities will begin to “challenge” the Waterloo decision, as the tent cities and tiny home communities prove to be untenable.
Aleta,
Kingston is challenging the Waterloo decision. All it takes is one, assuming Kingston is successful.
That is a good point Bryan–fingers crossed for success. Thanks
In addition Bryan in my posting I also stated after this was done it could be taken to the County who in turn would then take the matter along with the documentation to higher levels of government such as the Province and Feds to be specific. And to do in an expedited manner so the encampment won’t become entrenched. If you are going to quote part of my post I hoped you would include all points I made in it previously.
Bryan – great questions. Here’s what I have confirmed:
There’s about 25 give or take in the encampment. They are all addicts. I’ve visited them. They told me!
All have been interviewed by social services regularly . All refused help
There’s a few that take the help, but a few more trickle in so it hovers between 20-25. As it gets colder, those who are unprepared will accept service, but the core intend to stay
As for authorization, I’ve confirmed that the province is not preventing the county from its mandate to deal with homelessness. The Waterloo ruling requires a tier 1 municipality to offer low barrier entry resources. They can move them to another location with the same conditions as they have now without issue.
Truth is, unless the people of Cobourg push the issue, nothing is going to happen anytime soon.
It is disappointing and actually disgusting that it is believed it is up to the Cobourg residents to push the issue to get anything done – even after all that has been said to date about the encampment and mess Cobourg is in.
In the meantime the Mayor/Council, Police Chief/CPS, and By Law enforcement get a free pass for not doing their jobs to protect Cobourg and come up with a strategy to deal with the encampment and Wild West drug situation.
No Mr. Bison, I strongly believe it is up to the Leadership and Police Enforcement to push hard to get something done ASAP and stopping sitting back saying their hands are tied while they continue to put forward useless new by laws and try to reinvent the Cobourg management infrastructure.
Adding on to my comment, if it is truly the Cobourg residents responsibility to take the lead in resolution to Cobourg’s drug/encampment situation then changes need to be made starting with the Mayor and Police Chief stepping down as currently they are contributing to the situation as much as the Enablers. We need strong not weak leadership right now in order to bringing a form of stability to Cobourg.
If the Mayor stepped down as you suggest the Deputy Mayor would replace him. Would that provide strong leadership or make matters even worse? Deputy Mayor Beatty is our representative on the Police Services Board and she has done nothing to address the problems. I doubt that she would actually do something as Mayor.
I agree. Perhaps if the Mayor stepped down a new election could be mandated through a referendum being issued. Given the current situation and heightened public awareness there would be some strong candidates that would step forward.
The mayor does not agree with these enablers. I think he’s just crossing his T’s and dotting his it’s before he makes a move. The DM is friends with Missy and involved with GWC. She’s one of the enablers. Would we rather that? We’d have a bigger problem on our hands.
James, thank you for your comment and your work in holding the town hall meeting. If you are just the messenger, who is sending the messages? As Bryan pointed out Brookside is provincial. This is very well known so I doubt your suggestion of writing to the county was an oversight. However, the county is responsible for social housing and you suggest we write asking the encampment be moved. Why not get rid of it entirely? You also suggest we include using our tax dollars. Why not use our tax dollars to buy and repair the 2 closed properties? Most of the members of the encampment came from these private homes, if we are to believe the encampment people. Then run them properly and not allow drug dealing, bicycle theft etc. The people living in the homes will be receiving some kind of support payment (Ontario Works, ODSP, ..) which would be used to run the homes. Obviously there are problems with this idea but it could be done faster than building new social housing and better than living in tents.
From wearecobourg.ca, “I believe that our society has a moral responsibility in supporting a Social Safety Net to reduce suffering. The combination of taxpayer funded Government Programs and Community Support reflects our collective and individual compassion towards those in need.” At what cost? Does the cost to support the few outweigh the financial burden and suffering of the many? Are we to provide housing for people who want to share a room with their partner and get high instead of getting a job? Sandy has cautioned us about being fooled by the wearecobourg website. James, and whoever you are delivering messages for, don’t be fooled by the people in the encampment. If you move the encampment, build more social housing, etc. it will never be enough. Maybe the best way to reduce suffering is to get off drugs. I hope your delegation to the CPSB is about going after the dealers and repeat users of illegal drugs.
Per your “Proposal” the encampment is to be moved to Legion Field for six months – with tiny homes, then relocated to a more permanent location. So the problem remains just at a different spot. Legion Field is still among residential housing, businesses and the CCC – so at night the residents of the encampment will go out and case/steal their new area as habits don’t change quickly.
I was downtown the last two days around 3:30pm. On one day a drug addict was spinning like a top and running between the Frink and the Post Office and then lying on the bench at the bus stop. The other, there were about four encampment types on the street at Victoria Hall packing up their bikes and moving on. Also there were an ambulance and two police cars. Cobourg is not a nice place anymore.
Kingston last night said no to tiny homes. They were allowed in 2021 for six month trial – and here we are 2 1/2 years later. So once in tough to get out.
My “Proposal” is to focus on the priority in front of us:
1.) Energies be placed on putting a “pin” in the existing encampment, with no more relocations – rather removal. There are enough examples of laws being broken/crime from the encampment residents that Cobourg can justify actions to the Courts if that actually becomes necessary.
2.) CPS needs to start enforcing no use of illegal drugs in public locations – as Peterborough and Port Hope have initiated.
3.) Focus on 1 and 2, and not try to develop a Nine Step Encampment Action Plan that will take years to fulfill.
Your proposal to move the encampment to Legion Fields and accommodate the occupants in tiny homes, while awaiting subsequent relocation by the county, is ludicrous. There are still homes in the area and the hard core drug addicts will still roam at will causing problems as usual. Furthermore, this “temporary” solution may become permanent. It is currently the province’s responsibility to deal with this matter, as some respondents (posts) have noted.
Agree, Bill, no point in moving the problem around..as l stated earlier, moving onto Town property opens up the same difficulties experienced on the waterfront…huge clean up!…Also this is a County responsibility resting on Provincial property…..let’s leave it that way.
You are correct wherever these folks are there is trouble as demonstrated by yet another assault at the warming hub this week and there is no town property far enough away from schools, churches,businesses and vulnerable residents.
Let’s just hope the police and by law start impacting the situation or better still our justice system wakes up and addresses the increased crime to all of us and change comes forth.
sorry should read warming hub area…a fellow was charged Tues. 7 Nov
James, although you and I have a few things we disagree on I appreciate the time and effort you put in. The dialogue that began since your presentation has certainly made people feel like they’re not alone. We should be frustrated, not that your effort didn’t reflect us perfectly, but with those who are paid to represent the people of Cobourg and those who support them. Our town has been moving in this direction for years, maybe someone should ask whoever started ‘Everyone is welcome in Northumberland’, if an encampment is what they had in mind. I don’t think we should expect a perfectly orchestrated response from anyone within such a short period of time, I just appreciate that you responded. I hope that you keep moving forward, hopefully taking in some feedback 😉, and keep encouraging others to do the same.
Good to know you haven’t walked away, waiting for the next event.
Also note that the Mayor has told us again, there are spaces available at Transition House, they are not being utilized.
It is the enablers keeping the encampment freezing in the dark, don’t forget that.
A town hall by definition is an event at which a politician or public official answers questions from members of the public.
The event that transpired at the Best Western was misrepresented and was not conducted as a town hall.
If you are just the messenger, who’s providing you with the message because not one person was allowed to speak or interject, yet alone, ask a question at your event.
You get one chance to make a good first impression.
I am surly confident that in excess of over 200 residents have already communicated to County, Council and our MPP of their displeasure of having the encampment where it lays and that it still even exists, so to suggest further email barrages would be fruitless and present further inaction.
You state that delegations are ineffective as those officiating have no obligation to respond, yet you then state that you were planning a delegation to County but their committee does not reconvene unit January.
My message does not include a proposal to move an encampment to Legion Fields. My message does not include a proposal to chain mail officials and expect different results each time.
Its hard to trust that you are have been designated to be the messenger when the foundation of what your platform is have come into question.
CountryGal, you have many criticisms but I don’t see a suggestion for how to remove the criminals from their resort. What do you think should be done?
Was just thinking about this…and saw the Mayor’s video about shelters/motel spaces essentially empty. Can we not just give Chris and Virginia a motel room to share? That seems to be why they are refusing the shelter and encouraging others to refuse as well. Let’s just give them a motel room together- and put all of us out of our misery.
lol why all the down votes? I’m near the encampment and it’s a dumpster fire. Seems the whole town is being held hostage because these 2 want a place together. As far as I know Transition house has motel room. Give them one and then hopefully the rest of the encampment will follow suit and dissolve.
As with private rental options…these folks destroy where they stay and then the Motel owners lose a unit while repairing.not to mention limiting clientele, l’m sure many travellers now do thorough inspection before staying near this problem
That is why there are rules around visitation and when not abided the evictions are swifter than for a landlord. During the pandemic many were placed in the Port Hope Comfort Inn, likely a move regretted by them.
Staff left as the cleaning impact alone was horrendous violence was regular and just imagine how easy to steal the provided comforts
Chris and Virgina were given a motel room after they were moved from the house they destroyed on Division street……she mentioned so in one of her interviews.
They were asked to leave because, big surprise, they didn’t follow the rules of stay.
The motel owners take risk in permitting these folks in and they are not supposed to entertain visitors
Virgina admits to allowing at least one person in to shower. {sure} This action has them no longer candidates for this option.
It all comes back to not..so far..getting everything they want free or donated with no responsibility or gratitude and being left to continue in their addiction as has been posted by several contributers.
I know…I assumed they destroyed everything they touched…including their house on division. It just sucks that an entire town is being held hostage by these 2. I’m in the east end and my kids are at school here so obviously I don’t want them at Brookside. The motel over on division is not really near a residential area (near a highway) and I believe transition house runs some rooms there. I just don’t know what the answer is. It would be great if the advocates encouraged them not to destroy everything they touch. If they could just live like a regular couple then maybe they could have a room there and the east end of Cobourg could stop being held hostage by 2 people that don’t want to take any responsibility for themselves.
Catherine, you correctly say that Cobourg is being “held hostage” by two criminals. Why should the taxpayers provide a hostage taker with free room and board other than in a prison cell?
I mean I totally agree…but these advocates are never gonna let that happen…and those of us on the east end will continue to suffer. People in Meredith cres. are have people in their yards and houses on a regular basis and the police don’t do anything. It’s getting really bad people just want them out.
I was told they were offered a ,hotel room together. They turned it down.
So what exactly do they want then? A brand new waterfront condo with a rooftop terrace? I mean I want one of those too but they’re like 2 million dollars so I don’t have one. Instead I’m being terrorized in the East end. Maybe I should just demand one?
Ken, I don’t mean to seem critical. What is the definition of insanity… Doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.
I believe that the scope of addressing the issue lies with pushing back against the advocacy groups and the enablers.
If you intend to do some research on the particular groups that are currently working in the Cobourg area, you will notice that they have become all intertwined. Sitting on each others board of directors, having their own agendas, bypassing critical Social Service mandates and departments.
There also seems to be a trail of financial funding and uptake and I was always taught that when faced with questions, follow the money.
I have recently found out that the federal government is issuing grants for Substance Use and Addiction Programs where the criteria states that “funding is allocated to programs that reduce the risk of overdose, death, disease, transmission and other harms by providing safer forms of use”.
The government and our local Health and Social Services Departments are not receiving any funding for abstinence based programming. How often have you seen posters or heard about school visits, or a Policing Program that follows any type of abstinence platform? Where is the bleeding going to stop? If abstinence is not going to be addressed at one end of the spectrum, and rehab and recover at the other end of the spectrum, how is this ever going to end?
Advocacy groups across Canada have embraced a “harm reduction” ideology and the statistics that they like to promote is “reducing over doses” when in fact they are not providing statistics on how many addicted individuals have moved from active user status to rehab and recover status.
Same type of situation that we are addressing in Cobourg. The advocacy groups are receiving funding, grants, donations, and support and have seem to have taken matters into their own hands and not allowing the experts at Social Services and the Health Department to address the needs of the substance users. The advocacy groups are not reporting on statistics. The advocacy groups are the leaders and protectors of the addicted within the town. They use the protection of the Human Rights Act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms against the very citizens who wish to take action in their own community. Albeit, the same Charter and Act that is also there to protect ALL citizens. (Will Continue)
The advocacy groups use direct verbiage that is reflective of oppressive tactics. Destigmatize, Danger vs. Discomfort, calling addicted our neighbours, describing the addicted as the most vulnerable, trauma induced, cultivating, science based evidence, toxic drug crisis, safe supply… I could go on and on. The reality is that the encampment is garnering support from residents that feel that they are being helpful. Providing blankets, pizzas, coats, etc. Not realizing that they are enforcing, along with the support of the advocates, the necessity for the encampment tenants to seek help and enter the Social Services system.
As for the seniors that have been identified by GWC as needing shelter, but are living in their vehicles, I asked numerous times why those individuals have not been assessed through LHIN/Community Services. And why was GWC the only group to “assess” these individuals? Seniors come with their own set of mental and health challenges and should be assessed by Senior specific trained staff.
GWC seemed to be very protective of these 3-4 individuals and specifically responded to me that the individuals went to Social Services and were turned away because they had a vehicle. Then upon listening to the Port Hope Council Meeting this week, it was addressed that Social Services have placement for them in the motel program and that they were never seen at Social Services.
This leads me to believe that the liberties that the advocacy groups are taking are to the detriment of Northumberland Country.
Why are they not working within the boundaries of our social safety net? Why are they not working with the police and law enforcement to hold accountable the individuals that are breaking the laws? Why are they not working with the community and its residents to seek to bridge the gap? Why are they making proposals and solutions that are only to the benefit of the law breakers? Why are they advocating socialism ideologies that require zero accountability for the actions of the encampment tenants? Why is one of the most influential advocates supporting an illegal, unsanctioned safe injection site yet employed at our County agency and holds no responsibility to breaking laws, and continues to be employed? That is a huge conflict of interest that no one is questioning.
CountryGal, all your comments are exactly right and true and should be read by all cobourg citizens.
Excellent, we’ll said. We know who the enablers are, one of whom is now running am FB group slandering the Mayor.
Country Gal, I don’t think that you are too critical and we mostly agree on the problems. Actually you are not critical enough when you say that we should let the experts at Social Services and the Health Department address the problem. Many of these groups have succumbed to the idiocy that they should keep addicts alive regardless of the cost rather than putting all of their efforts into helping addicts to become productive members of society again.
James Bisson
You were rude and ignorant during your political agenda which you called a Town Hall. You need to look up what a Town Hall is. You would not let anyone ask questions or speak their mind. I pay taxes in this town. You blame everything on the pharmaceutical companies. They provide crack to these people. The encampment has been offered help and have said they don’t want handouts. Clearly you were there to push a political agenda or make contacts and for you to say otherwise is a lie!
I really hope our local politicians are following the comments in this post. The large number of thumbs up for comments from KalaM, Rational, Mervin, Rob and Sonya provided much more feedback than the town surveys. I do not bother reading the surveys because they are all so biased against conservative values in favour of socialist ideals that they are worthless. I was going to go the the informal meeting yesterday evening but had a long work day. The question I wanted to ask was about responsibilities. Mervin mentions personal responsibilities in a comment below. Without responsibilities there are no rights. We have heard about the rights to housing. Who has the responsibility to provide it? Must it be provided to those who destroy it? What will the cost, not the dollar cost, but the degradation of our communities be?
Sandy has pointed out ‘wearecobourg’ Facebook group is not the same group as the one that held the townhall. wearecobourg.ca seems to be the same site before and after the meeting. This site mentions responsibilities, “I believe that everyone has the right to choose their path in life and assume responsibility for the outcomes.” It also seems to be advocating for the people in the encampment. There is mention of homes being used as “shelters” but not that the tenants of these homes were charging the homeless to use them resulting in unsafe conditions. From the website, strongly in favour is the result of a vote on “Government and Communities must re-evaluate the scale and scope of their resources to support those in need.” No mention of prosecuting drug dealers. What are the personal responsibilities of the former tenants of the closed homes? Were we fooled into believing wearecobourg believes in holding people accountable, as it states on its website?
Look to see who runs that page, wearecobourg. It is one of the enablers, one of thevpurposes is to harass the Mayor among other nefarious activities. Don’t be fooled.
Sandy, who is running the site? How did you find out it’s one of the enablers?
Robert Horgan
Kevin – Good questions. The only group that benefits from drug addiction are dealers. I got involved when I found that a trap house (the “shelters”) was in my neighborhood. I spoke to neighbors who lived next door to them for years. The stories they told me were brutal! They were under siege. The addicts were subjected to way more than unsafe conditions. The were fodder to be used and exploited in terrible ways.
Unfortunately, technical difficulties prevented me from addressing the dealer issue. I know there are other trap houses out there. In fact, closing them created the encampment.
I spoke to a downtown business owners who regularly sees open drug dealing across the street from their business. I asked them how long the dealer had been there. She said 2 years! I’ve confirmed this with others in the area. Battell was operating for atleast 8 years!
The police know all this.
We pay more towards police services than anything else at the municipal level by a wide margin. The only one organization that can hold the dealers accountable to pay for their crimes are law enforcement. What are they waiting for? Its an interesting question.
And as we wait for justice, the dealers laugh as they profit from addicts in the most horrific ways. Crime continues to pay the dealers and the public lives under a cloud.
I don’t sleep well at night anymore knowing what I know….so to answer your question, I have no compassion for drug dealers.
The definitive beginning of the problem plaguing our Town was the lowering of barriers at Transition House. This still allowed drug consumption, easily facilitated by the supply house at James/John,
It worked quietly until non-consumption overnight and on site of T House did not afford the freedom the addicts needed to continue in their lawless existence this affected greatly the neighbours but was contained to a smaller portion of the town.
Then the “trap houses” developed at the expense of one landlord in particular who was easily manipulated.and owned properties scattered more widely in town but still more or less within walking distance of the main supply house and the downtown.
When those houses developed into supply houses as well and in a state of ruin and contamination as well impacting a great deal more of citizens at the same time the problem began to explode and more folks became aware of the dangers that we here ,neighbours of T House have suffered for 6 years ..and continue to endure
Now there are no more easy options remaining to live free of all rules this crowd is crying shame on us for not supporting them…..shame on you for giving up on yourselves .
I thank all of the community that is now as outraged as we have been here in T T T [The Troubled Triangle] and feel the support for change in our Town
James, I think many people in Cobourg have no compassion for drug dealers. The police have cameras installed in certain areas to observe what is happening. Unfortunately, even with the video evidence, the police seem to be ineffective at stopping the flow of drugs. It must be very easy to bring drugs into a town when there are drug problems in prisons. Drug dealers must really like the fact their customers are being helped by emergency services and other community groups. Keeping addicts alive means more drugs and more profit for the dealers. I have no idea what the police are waiting for. I think the police should be charging everybody connected to illegal drugs every chance they get. At least we don’t have a weekly drug party downtown anymore. I wonder how much profit the dealers made from those parties. Good luck with your delegation to the CPSB!
Rational, your absolutely right in saying Enough is Enough!
Thank you for informing readers on this blog. Truly, very disgusting!!!!
Membership will surely drop at the “Y”
I do not have a membership at the Y, but if l did l would feel that l had paid my membership and that this was my community and l would like a say as to the use of the sanitary facilities .
It seems currently a dedicated effort to aid the campers in access to an opportunity to refresh themselves is occurring. I feel if this is happening it should take place outside regular operational hrs. with any of the enabling groups covering costs for extra duties to staff to reduce impact on dedicated member use.
I know the support staff will be taking extra care to keep things safe for all members but this is an extra burden on the workday for them and close proximity to toddlers and seniors is of concern.
We all know that given an inch these people take a mile…keep in mind they have all been offered and rejected an opportunity to have clean accomodations with facilities available. Hopefully damage will be kept at a minimum or none of the open drug use, currently accepted by our police, will not take place in and around the complex.
I respect that the Y has a mission statement but this crisis of drug addiction was not anticipated at the time of establishment .
A homeless person does not bring with them the same concerns…a drug addict could have dangerous substance residue on them{even emergency services wear protection to protect against exposure} and because they are not clear thinking, could leave behind harmful “gear” and products.
Here’s an idea, if you are driving a camper to use facilities, how about you take them to your home, you are comfortable with them in your car why not go one step further. I consider transporting them to a facility where folks pay for their visits, a bit of a stretch as it’s an assumption that everyone is comfortable with this practice
This article was put forward by the “Y”. To me, it’s disappointing how enablers and 30-40 out of control people can influence Cobourg decision makers to such an extreme.
The article doesn’t come close to alleviating concerns or risks. It is an off the shelf response with no thought at all of the members/future members of the “Y”
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/11/07/ymca-northumberland-clarifies-concerns-and-is-open-to-all/
Rational, I agree. This YMCA article does not come close to alleviating any concerns or risks.
One can surmise not much more can be expected when our Chief of Police, who sits on the YMCA Board (as a Director) has put forward this viewpoint of perceived safety from the outset.
The YMCA mission statement is dedicated to “…foster a sense of responsibility to each other…” and “…fostering a sense of social responsibility …”
“Social Responsibility” means bupkis when it comes to persons who commit drug-fueled crime. Same can be said for their “freelance advocates”— hindering these persons from accepting Professional Supports for their own warped interests and ideologies.
On the Cobourg “Neighboorhood Crime Watch Facebook” page there was a posting that in the morning when the church warming hub closes that enablers are giving anyone who stayed there overnight (I guess those from the encampment) rides to the YMCA on Elgin Street to use the shower facilities as they are free. I have also heard from other sources confirming this.
While I understand the “Y” has been allowing access for truly homeless people, given how the enablers work the system, this is wrong. The “Y” accommodates Daycare, kids, teenagers, seniors, families and for the “Y” to interpret its rules to accommodate use by drug addicts who are terrorizing Cobourg since Summer is simply a dangerous line to cross.
Enough is Enough.
Pulled up this morning only to see the enablers and my new neighbours. Such a pleasure to see the people responsible for my back yard invasions up close. This was what the ymca used to be, I understand that, but I still feel like cancelling my membership. I never used to feel this way about the homeless. Radical ideas have dramatically changed the perception of the homeless for the worse. No one will trust good community services anymore because the cake and eat it crowd have set the bar so low for our “neighbours”. This ideology driven lawlessness is sadly creating greater division. Bring back a modest amount of personal responsibility so we can move forward please.
SHAME ON THESE THREE COUNCILLORS who are calling a casual informal chat Tuesday, November 7th at Lalies & Dutch.
What issues do they want to discuss with the taxpayers that they don’t already know?
Why do they want a one-on-one conversation?
Why didn’t they post an agenda or presentation?
These three councillors were at the town meeting at the Best Western on Nov.1st so they are well aware of the issues facing this town. They appear to have their own agenda and just want to convince the public that they are the good guys. Everyone is aware they are acting with “advocacy groups”.
If they were to spend more time addressing the problems like drugs, violence and theft etc. rather than hosting a useless meeting.
GET ON WITH DOING YOUR JOB AND QUIT WASTING OUR TIME!!!!
FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU
FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME
If they are prepared to discuss real issues, this could very easily become a bear pit but I suspect it will be filled with like minded liberals looking to provide handouts and free housing to addicts, without active/successful participation in sober living.
There are a few things about this “come talk with us” that trouble me (1) to your point, they are agenda based, supportive and sympathetic of GWC and other advocacy groups including safe consumption, (2) this head in the sand, carrying on business as usual act isn’t helpful right now – dig in and address the single biggest issue impacting taxpayers in this Town right now, (3) there would appear to be a significant level of divisiveness on this Council and (4) do we need to issue an amber alert for the Mayor?
One things for sure
They won’t get voted in again.
In an earlier post, I had encouraged people to attend the next Cobourg Police Services Board meeting – unfortunately I posted the incorrect date in that post! … the correct date and time is Tuesday, November 21st from 9-11 a.m. at Venture 13 on D’Arcy St. Sorry for the confusion!
Scottie, I have read your earlier post. Could you please clarify for me, or help me better understand:
I didn’t have any plans to do a “delegation” – simply was suggesting that people show up for the meeting. I don’t have much faith in “delegations” as I’ve seen how useless those have been with Cobourg Town Council in the past. Simply showing up to the CPSB meeting in impressive numbers will, I think, speak for itself…
Why can’t the CPSB publish the delegation by James Brisson for public information as there appears to be a divided public stance on the WeareCobourg group ?
Hi Bill, please see link to Mr. Bisson’s CPSB delegation below. The delegation was well done.
I believe, the “Town Hall” diatribe is deemed by many initial supporters to be an egoistic “betrayal”.
https://pub-cobourg.escribemeetings.com/FileStream.ashx?DocumentId=33935
Thank you .
I hope those now see first hand on pages 8-10 what James spoke about vice speculation.
Wearecobourg Facebook group is no longer active. The new 2.0 version is not the same group, it is a knock off set up by one of the enablers, don’t be fooled.
Important meeting with 3 council members this Tuesday 6 PM at Lalies
Ask them why, when a lady asked ’what happened to the promise of Brookside?’ at a council meeting did no one correct her? Who promised them Brookside? Would they go on record and state whether they’ve supported or not supported the encampment?
Maybe they have incite into a rumour that there is a collection of “cabins ” in Welcome……could these be the infamous sleeping cabins and the County readying a potentially costly move toward some action for the unhoused?
They keep saying the Welcome Cabins will be for seniors. Does this mean they won’t they take my new neighbours? They are very good neighbours I promise🤞
They plan to use a successful trial for seniors in Welcome to justify future housing projects for addicts and other criminals.
From their FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) at https://drive.google.com/FAQ they write:
This proposal is an obvious Trojan Horse to house addicts near our communities!
Sounds about right. It will be impossible for these groups to gain my trust after the way they’ve manipulated the taxpayers and its leaders into programs that completely lack common sense, completely gaslighting people into believing they have some moral superiority. It’s extremely dishonest the way they’ve portrayed the people who just want common decency restored. Welcome will succeed for one obvious reasons, addicts will find it harder to access drugs there and there is just nothing for them there. Seniors deserve better than tiny cabins, I just don’t trust these organizations with any resources at all. They should not be allowed to run anything anywhere near Cobourg.
This doesn’t sound like there would be anything there for seniors either…unless the school is developed to house a community space. Folks at retirement need involvment not seclusion…certainly not recovering or functioning addicts in their complex to prey upon them.
Loneliness can result in bad judgement in gaining companionship.
This is quite informative, thank you.
The link to NSCC Collective has a link to Port Hopes council meeting on November 7th. Agenda Item 7.2.1 outlines a motion on allowing NSCC use of the George Hamilton Elementary School grounds in Welcome, Ontario. Also mentioned is Greenwood Coalition being allowed 4 units on a test basis for 6 months.
This school was closed in 2021 and I understand subsequently purchased by the Town of Port Hope.
https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/port-hope-now-accepting-proposals-for-uses-of-former-george-hamilton-public-school/article_883f8abe-0f9d-5324-832f-b581d6e6abf7.html
My take away is that this proposal has support of Port Hope council given its instructions to Staff for rezoning amendments. If it goes through I believe we will be looking at a serious expansion in the area to the problems we now have – notwithstanding what NSCC say in its comments about screening residents.
Both documents are worth reading.
Will the next step be to convert the whole school into a “hub” for addicts and their suppliers? I pity the hard working and law abiding residents of Welcome!
Not to mention the potential danger to the elderly .
There would be dealers coming to the addicts if the addicts are unable to get to the dealers.
There seems to have been an unfair comparison between the Cabin community in Eugene Or and that of what is being proposed in Welcome On Canada. The Square One Villages and Opportunity Village as mentioned in the links on this site, are heavily regulated and have overt policies that the residents must abide by. Whereas the Port Hope Cabin proposal does not include the same type features. Which could make a difference in the success of the proposed cabin community.
The American cabin communities, especially the Eugene Or communities are bound by specific rules and regulations such as no violence, no theft, no alcohol, no drugs & paraphernalia, and no disruptive behaviour. These communities have a manned front desk and visitor registration policies with security checks. Gates are locked at midnight and reopen at 8am. They have a no weapons policy, safety committees, emergency vehicle ingress and egress planning scope and fire drills. The American communities have a food storage policy to address rodents and vermin, abandonment policy and are highly regulated to who is available to have access to live in the community.
The current Port Hope community seems to have no such regulation and are not holding the residents accountable for behaviour, municipal by-law enforcement, police regulation and have sold their proposal based on volunteer policing on rules that are outside of the realm of the statutes of the law.
I am currently not in support of this proposal for a number of concerns:
Why have the 3-4 individuals not accessed assistance through our social services safety net? Why have the potential cabin residents not being screened through LIHN/ Community care, Community living and respite of Northumberland or any other senior specialists in our community? What input have local realtors submitted with regards to properly value sustainment in the proposed area? Have local residents in the Welcome area been notified through signage or individual letters addressed to home owners through the municipality of the proposed upcoming changes? What determination has been made to incorporate the already tax levied services and supports have been conducted expect for the request for free land to conduct an “experiment” that could quite possibly be at the determent to the community of Welcome, its ratepayers and the Town of Port Hope.
Another Trojan Horse tactic to line somebodies pockets.
Merwin, Thank-you for that incite.I’m inclined to believe as Ken says, a trojan horse.
Remember though, residence in these and the cabins in Peterborough require the individuals to apply, much like a stay in Transition House or Gov’t assisted housing which then subtracts the housing allowance from the applicants OSDP or other Gov’t monies….so …not much chance of our campers lining up as this is the roadblock at present.
Our king and Queen will definitely not accept this option as they would not likely be allowed co-habitation ..plus it would cut into their side hustle of drug dealing
Perhaps the Mayor and other three councillors could join the rest of us citizens in the audience, and see what these three renegade councillors have to say.
When the Best Western event was packed – 250 seated plus ~ 50 standing and maybe a hundred turned away – why are the Council members choosing a one on one function at Lalies – a tiny little restaurant???? They should be at a podium with our Mayor in the Concert Hall.
Old Sailor,
Perhaps their attendance expectations are quite low.
The concert hall would be a good site but the Mayor (or any of the other non-amigo council members) could not be at the podium or speak. If they do then there is quorum (4 of 7) and an illegal Council meeting.
“Informal Conversation” at a coffee shop — not an “Official” Important meeting. Also clearly noted on this advertisement; “We are not ACTING on behalf of all Council”. What does that mean, “Acting”? Operating? Functioning? Working? Behaving? Representing? Does this mean the 3 Amigos are Acting on differing “plans of action” than the rest of Council? Their “Acting” with particular “advocacy” groups is quite evident. One would think Communication from our Council be cohesive and streamlined — not on Social Media platforms, which many do not utilize.
Yep – the woke coalition- associated with GWC and Missy McLean. They are obviously on a different page than the mayor and the other 3 council members. No thank you
This is a small venue. Therefore I offer my opinion to your now Council members.
The people in the Encampment have been repeatedly offered what services there are here with few takers apparently leaving openings and help going begging. As that is the case I would offer the services and accommodation one more time – priority by acceptance of offer. The offers have been made many times to these people. Should the final offer be refused I would advise them transport has been arranged to general shelters in larger centres or they must take what is available here. Once selected for transport it would be their choice whether to seek drug treatment programs. Should a person not be from this area they would automatically be transported to the closest centre they came from that offer such housing and services. It certainly is not their right to occupy lands in unsightly tents, have open drug use and some wreaking havoc on the community with assaults, break ins and general theft. I have seen one particular individual who claims to be a longer term resident in Cobourg. Strange I have never seen them here previous to this summer and by appearance would certainly have remembered them. A check on past living should claim be made they have resided here for some time should be done.
I have no understanding why they should be given housing as well as continue their drug use in such housing refusing help. When raising children sometimes they want candy or dessert prior to dinner. Well for most it doesn’t work that way especially if one claims to be an adult. Primarily though should drug programs be refused I would then offer a trip to the grey bar hotel.
Wow! Not one “thumbs up” to the proposed get together by the three councilors! It says a lot about the regard in which they are held by the general public. If some people do attend, please impress upon them that the inane proposal advocated by Bisson and company(and abettors) to relocate the “tenters” to Legion Fields in temporary accommodations (tiny cabins) is totally unacceptable. It will not solve the problem and may become a rather permanent solution. We still have Transition house and the warming shelter where the druggies roam at will. So leave them where they are! Let the province and county deal with them. Meanwhile, enforce the law! Weed out the hard core drug users. Arrest, trial and incarceration are required! Institutionalization and counselling for those with severe mental disorders! For those who are victims through no fault of there own, by all means, lets do our best to provide them with appropriate housing.
CCC,
I went to Lalies with three questions and somewhat out of curiosity. I think Pete Fisher’s estimate of 30 people is high, 15 may be closer to the total.
Each of the attending council members held forth at separate tables.
The main topics were homelessness, encampment, crime, drugs, fear, lack of police action, lack of Council (and County) action.
The “visitors” all expressed frustration and concern and were patiently listened to. There was some discussion. General solutions were suggested but little new or immediately actionable.
For me , it was a mildly productive 2 hours. I got some insights into these three Council members perspective on some current issues and indications that there is “corrective” activity going on behind the scenes.
I’m sure there is more to come but the public has to be more engaged and push the powers that be hard. As several commenters have noted: enough is enough
Police need to follow the example of Peterborough and port hope police. No open drug use. What is the problem with our Cobourg police? The bus shelter on king and college is not even usable. This is not fair to Cobourg taxpayers.
e-mailed the Chief of Police immediately when this news of Peterborough’s Chief beginning this program …..was told every effort isn’t cookie cutter and he would be watching as this unfolded and was in conversation with Peterborough’s Chief……………therefore a “wait and see” approach as always..patent reply to calm the questioner.
Been over a good space of time now…..still no action.
I will say in observance, it takes a tragedy or two among the ordinary citizens before action is taken. My neighbour’s assault and a robbery and assault in the parking lot next to Trinity Church has prompted a no Trespassing sign in the North alcove of the Church .
The neighbours of Transition House are thankfull as this has calmed…to a degree ..the open drug use on the public areas near us. however saddened that a Church has had to take this stand because the very people they are trying to assist are unpredictable and violent. Our public spaces are hugely impacted by these events as are public facilities such as bus shelters and public washrooms.
I am also saddened at the trauma these two families have had to endure and the lasting impact on their mental health and well being.
But our Police will wait and see..
Police are diligently studying Ptbo and Pt Hope programs. They want too ensure there can be no “negative consequences” for the user, Police or Town when you tell people to stop consuming drugs in public.
Just think two people sitting in the transit shelter King and College.
One consuming illicit drugs and the other drinking from a 40 of rye.
Police show up as result of publiccomplaint.
Drug user is asked if ok by police and is there anything we can do for you.
Person with 40 of rye. Has it seized by police, ticket issued for consuming open liquor and told to leave the bus shelter for engaging in prohibited activity.
Or, unfortunately: F.I.D.O.
An acronym used by police officers that means “F— It, Drive On” or “Forget It, Drive On.”
Heard this very acronym from an acquaintance who happens to be an ex- toronto police officer. when relaying some of the problems l’ve had.
The comment was the CPS suffers greatly from the F I D O system of operation
Which dismisses the negative consequences for anyone walking by…especially if you have children
Unfortunately those who have to see, walk by or suffer from those users aren t part of the equation. Because if the regular were , the program from Ptbo would be implemented and users would experience the consequences of the program.As it stands now it is the citizens who are experiencing the consequences of inaction.
Would you know if Port Hope’s policy was in place before or after Peterborough announced no open use?
I believe that the main theme of Mr. Bisson’s meeting the other night was his conviction that Drugs and Dealers are the root cause of the homelessness problem in Cobourg. I agree with him. How do we deal with that? – well I have some suggestions.
Mr. Bisson and his support workers did a great service to this town the other night and we need to appreciate him (them) for that – not criticize that the presentation got bogged down and that no Q&A was allowed — with that many people and an unregulated Q&A session – WE’D STILL BE THERE TODAY!!! Let’s make something positive happen here – quit the grumbling and hand wringing and demand that the Police and County Council take decisive action.
Just a little addition – The next Cobourg Police Services Board meeting is from 9-11 a.m. on Nov. 16th at Venture 13, 739 D’Arcy St.
Please check escribe the meeting is on the 21st of November there are no meetings on escribe for the 16th.
I cannot remember the last time I heard an independent thought come from the Cobourg PSB. They just parrot what the Chief tells them and collect their honorariums.
But, remember to bring your pompoms for the cheerleading and be careful of all the string making the puppets talk.
Thank you – I was just going by the CPS schedule issued earlier this year — I was planning on calling CPS first thing Monday (tomorrow) to clarify and then re-post the amended time.
The strategy proposed is an excellent idea and should be carried out. However, another root cause to the drug situation in Cobourg is that CPS don’t see that as it’s responsibility – which is wrong.
I’m trying to understand the downvote of both Scottie and Rational. Why would anyone think that enforcing the law is a bad idea?
The down-votes were probably from the drug dealers!!!!!!
Where is the laugh out loud button 🤔😁
The crackheads and their enablers
The CPS needs to release the name & photos of convicted and charged drug dealers. Stop this BS of no names released
WARNING! WARNING
There is a new FB group started, We Are Cobourg, by Robert Horgan.
Please be advised that this site is not associated with James Bisson and his – We Are Cobourg event. This is not a new site that has been created by James Bisson or anyone associated with him, it is a knock off site.
It is a FB group created by Robert Horgan to disparage our Mayor the Police Chief and our community. Be aware that anything posted there about the Town Hall or any future connected events are not sanctioned or endorsed. Thank you.
That was predictable wasn’t it Sandy and just like the down votes, mentioned by Ken S, he and you know who have been ghosting these articles with them.
I have a good idea, he is inhinged
What happened to freedom of speech and one of James Bisson long depiction of rights? Anyone can comment, set up meetings or sites, pro or con. Also, what logic allows for only “make a noise for agreement and quiet for disagreement”? Seems somewhat oppressive. This shouldn’t be a warning but an indication that there are other views out there that shouldn’t be suppressed, unlike the “town hall” that only allowed one speakers view.
Concerned Cobourg Citizen, rather than complaining, why don’t you rent a venue, invite everyone to express their opinions, serve coffee and choose a non-oppressive means of showing agreement?
Please advise us of your chosen time and place.
It seems as though these organizers are holding out for sleeping cabins. I’m almost relieved this encampment has shown people exactly what neighbourhoods can expect if this comes to fruition. It’s funny to see a business with an, ‘Everyone is welcome in Northumberland’ sign in their window now with locked doors and a bell due to,”recent events”. But I thought everyone was welcome??
There appears to be further meetings planned. I can only hope it will be a well coordinated campaign with rapid decisions made and it will not drag down in never ending discussions as the encampment grows digging in to become a permanent fixture.
On a prior subject two or three people most directly affected suggested forming a citizens’ group to gather ideas and make action plans. Wrtitten submissions would be great then organized in groups for similar viable solutions. Presented as group representatives to first our local governments to be escalated to higher levels of government. A further Town Hall would be most helpful for wide citizen attendance attended with key Council and County as a plan of action is coordinated.
Seems kind of dumb to be bamboozled by a few people in an encampment.
Let’s be clear here, this had nothing to do with Town Council; no officials in any capacity where involved. A dedicated group of concerned citizens helped Mr. risson to do this but in return, he did a 180 deg. on them, completely blowing them off to do his own thing.
He says on his updated page there will be another meeting but if so, he has to do it on his own or work together with this group guaranteeing it will be a collaborative effort.
His idea of a temporary trailer park at Legion Fields for the encampment is workable providing it remains temporary; then moving them north of the 401. A necessary move to give the Cobourg residents a reprieve from crime, public drug use, trespassing etc. etc. Cobourg has had enough, move the encampment and Transition House. We want our feel good town back.
Thank you for those who worked so hard to be so disappointed, Mr. Bisson, what say you, how about a reply on this blog, or ?
Hi Katie. I agree. I was at the Cobourg Police delegation by Mr. Bisson and handed out flyers. Mr. Bisson completely changed his stance that initially garnered much backing. Mr. Bisson did not provide any gesture of gratitude to these “helpers” whatsoever. I do not agree with “tiny homes”, etc. Issues keep being skewed:
1. 23 people with addictions to drugs are living illegally at Brookside.
2. ALL have been offered assistance, by the Professionals at our County Department — Social Services.
3. All have declined this help.
4. For this reason, we continue to endure addiction-fueled crime.
I’m not in agreement with moving the camp….this only spreads the pain.
Legion fields is adjacent to a large area of family housing.and impressionable youth.the old “Depot” housing , Alexandria Drive and further north Elgin street and Nickerson.
With a convenience store in this area there would be lots of travel through these areas…………..not to mention another school area [2, st. Mary’s St. Joseph’s] and the center for Individual studies.The many members of hockey teams, exercise classes, entertainment at the CCC come in cars [easy pickings] would all be impacted. This move would only shift the crime locations
Let’s just get the camp , Transition House, and the Warming hub all distanced from those of us who are negatively affected and actually help the members toward recovery and reintroduction to the working world or improved supports for those unable to work to support themselves
I would also add that Legion fields is not “out of residential and commercial areas and separate from the general population” as suggested by wearecobourg.ca
There is an industrial park owned by the town directly across the road in which a theft of rather expense bicycle tires took place and the video of the theft posted as a cyclist road by with two “spare” tires over his shoulder. That’s with the camp being where it is, what do you suppose it would be like for workers in the park if it was relocated to D’arcy Street area.
Try telling the residents surrounding St. Mary’s school that they are not part of the general population.
This atrocity is affecting ALL citizens of Cobourg.
Again! the housing for these folks is not on the shoulders of the town…we just suffer the negatives.Why are wecobourg.ca looking to improve their lot?
Look to the next levels of Gov’t
Also, who foots the bill for the inevitable clean up when/if a permanent site for this camp is found and they leave Legion fields? The Town of course because then on Town property….we’ve already paid for this once on the west beach
Rest assured that there is no weekly dump run that Chris Kneilands or anyone else in the camp is paying for as he intimates in Pete Fisher’;s video {the clean up crew actually say to Chris in that video that they will remove everything in the “garbage gazebo”.
The hit would be heavy after a winter’s stay..unless the health unit steps up as it did at Virgina’s and Chris’ previous hovel of hospitality and removes people for the sake of their health and concern for impact on neighbours.
I also left the meeting close to the end. There is no video…it was removed by the person who was initially assisting James Bisson. That individual is disgusted that Mr. Bisson did a 360 on his initial intent, that garnered support. Bamboozled. Disappointed. He read Virginia Bailey’s sob story, but did not include her children’s letters in response…how Chris and Virginia were offered help multiple times by family and how they neglected the children. The letters can be seen in comment section on Fishers YouTube interview with the mayor of tent town. Zero empathy for the crime us citizens endure. Zero mention of beds available and County help offered. And then!…a slide of “solutions” including Tiny homes! The individual assisting Mr. Bisson worked very hard with other concerned citizens to distribute flyers and get support. In Pete Fisher’s radio interview Mr. Bisson stated it was up to the elected officials to come up with solutions and we were there to put pressure on them, as a democracy. I can say all at the encampment are addicts and all have been offered assistance and rehabilitation treatment (fast tracked). Mr. Bisson talked about our “safety net” failing and solutions. Our safety net is not failing these 23 hardcore addicts. The solution is not Tiny homes. These are political games, all the while we continue to endure crime committed by these addicts. Very disappointed.
I too attended, but couldn’t get in. I’m glad I didn’t get in as it sounded like it was a waste of time. The Mayor, however also couldn’t get in (you’d like they could have at least squeezed the mayor in I mean come on people) BUT those of us in the hall had productive chats with the Mayor, so it was worth it. If anyone here has not yet reached out to him I encourage you to do so. I voted for him, and am glad I did. He’s doing more behind the scenes than we realize. He said a large problem in this town is that barriers to shelters have been lowered so much so, that they are no longer safe. Therefore those seniors sleeping in their cars and other homeless that are not drug addicts can’t access the shelters as they are incredibly unsafe. Essentially everyone in this town – including many homeless- are being held hostage by a handful of drug addicted criminals. He also said there are ample shelter spaces available. I do genuinely feel he has our towns best interest at hand. Please reach out if you haven’t yet.
Agree with the negative effect lowering of barriers has made. I , by this time, am sounding like a broken record.
This was done without preparation for residents and businesses and a family shelter that previously existed [over 20 yrs. problem free] was sacked, leaving no refuge for the truly unhoused.
Although l did not attend this meeting l heard second hand that Mr. Bisson stated the town had closed shelters in town….misinformation…the houses being alluded to were not shelters they were rental spaces being exploited by Virgina, Chris, and their friends much to the loss of the landlord.
They were over occupied and violating many bylaws and the “help ” provided came at a cost for the very people Virgina claims to be helping.
The King and Queen of the enchantment themselves (Virginia and Chris) were in attendance and also hanging around the lobby acting like they owned the place and staggering around. That’s too bad about the family shelter. The issue with the encampment is they are all drug addicts and criminals. The truly down on their luck homeless can’t go there or transition house, it’s too dangerous. Honestly if those in the encampment weren’t committing crimes and trashing the place people probably wouldn’t mind so much.
*encampment*
So true Chris and Virginia though acting benevolent are mercenary selling their ILLEGAL and HARMFUL drugs to any
person with cash or trade…What a Joke that they try to perpetrate their kindness and caring.
How may OD cases are from their wares..No one should be falling under their spell …all lies
I have seen them visiting the drug supply house loading up with poisons to sell .
Herein lies on of the root challenges with communications in Cobourg! Doing stuff behind the scenes without proper communication allows for mis-information, innuendos and gossip. This town needs a good communication strategy so that everyone can pull together with proper information. It takes an inordinate amount of digging to only find after the fact of an event, a comment or a critical event has passed. What’s happened to the Mayor’s regular blog?
What happened to the mayors comment that maybe it’s time to update the town…still waiting!
What is he doing behind the hr scenes then?
Plans that do not involve a homeless shelter or tent city. He and Piccini are looking at a new Fleming College campus which would be much better than tent city, among a few other things. He’s also not playing ball with GWC, Missy or any of the drug pushers. He doesn’t agree with the drug enabling whatsoever. Basically compared the drug enabling with building a second highway for drunk drivers (like this is how ridiculous it is). I never knew 100% where he stood, but now I do. I do believe he has our towns best interest at hand.
I too heard that Fleming is going to get Brookside. Just how many times does Fleming College come to Cobourg with a flourish, run a few courses, cancel other courses because of inadequate enrolment and then take off. Difference this time is that when they take off they pocket the huge real estate value of Brookside.
Ben
I believe this has now been withdrawn. It was on the table but no agreement was made.
Interesting comments. Could have made a video for distribution given no attendee participation. The one point that nobody seems to stress or make is why Cobourg?….. if this is a County or Provincial responsibility then why is Port Hope, Campbellford and Brighton not sharing some of the challenge. If Transition house was in Port Hope would we have the same issue here in Cobourg? Someone mentioned the homeless wrecking a few homes and Frink washroom …. Are these folks ones you would gladly rent a room to? For those that are interested you may wish to go to the Belleville site and check out their Homelessness Summit ….. an all day session that took place earlier this year and it was attended by County, Mayors, MP and MPPS as well as Homelessness Organizations unlike Greenwood …. They also had a homeless individual walk through her journey in and out of homelessness ….. this an example of productive town hall.
Forgot to mention that the Hastings County provides reports on progress made with Homeless individuals on their “ By Name List “ …. Is Northumberland County doing same?
There is only one way to deal with the Homeless Issue. One only! The answer will come from one level of our government and this issue will take years and a lot of money to control
The municipality is were everything is happening but a town like Cobourg would probably find dealing with this issue would get too complex and very expensive in short order. Any town that gains a reputation for working and helping the homeless would only be inviting more and more homeless people to come to their town. Northumberland County obviously does not want to deal with the issue and the issue is related separately to each town, not to the much bigger rural part which is the counties only real interest. Much of Ontario does not have county government.
*Generally an issue like this that is related to housing, policing, social work, etc. would fall under the responsibility of the Provincial Government. All of Ontario needs to work together if any chance is going to occur to fix homelessness. BUT, It should be very clear to everyone that Doug Ford’s government has no intention of doing anything for anyone except to help line the pockets of his wealthy friends. Why would anyone vote for such a poor government?
THE ONLY SOLUTION that lies at hand is to get Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party to stand up and accept this challenge for the whole country.
It would not be against our political order for the Federal gov’t to step in. They are in charge of the whole country. Homelessness has exploded across all of Canada and will remain the horror of the 2020’s. Longer than that if no one deals with it.
THE FIRST THING TO BE DONE is to hold open rallies, talks, political meetings from ALL levels run by the Federal Government. Analyze the issue of HOMELESSNESS from every angle. Let all opinions and ideas flow from coast to coast, because no one has any clear idea of what to do.
A program needs to develop that builds affordable housing across every Province and Territory, Drug Addiction counselling needs to be open to the public everywhere, Mental Health counselling should step up greatly, Home Instruction on how to live and maintain a home is also necessary, employment support is needed so people eventually reach a livable standard of living. Police need to set clear standards as to what is acceptable and what is illegal. Governments need to make clear laws that stop and regulate drug problems.
LET”S GET STARTED !!!
The Federal government activated the Emergency Act against the truck convoy that wanted to talk to him directly and he totally ignored them.
He should be able to get directly involved in this country wide.impending disaster rather than jet setting around the world trying to solve its problems.
The silence from Ottawa is deafening.
Doug, I disagree on so many levels but for only one:
No, it is not the duty of “Police need to set clear standards as to what is acceptable and what is illegal.” That is something to be decided by our legislatures and judiciary; the police must enforce all laws for everyone always.
Ken, I agree with you. Better wording on my part would have been good. One of the many issues that is messing up our country right now, is that Police agencies are choosing to pick the laws they will enforce while also choosing to ignore many other existing laws. Drug use is often simply ignored. We can all see burned out souls all over. It would not be too hard to follow some of them and easily track down the drug sellers and to arrest druggies for using illegal drugs. It is clear that Police simply look the other way with most of this. Yes Ken, governments should set the law but currently they just let the police look the other way and ignore the law.
We have to ensure consistent enforcement for all! Perhaps universal enforcement of laws should be our emphasis rather than encampments, warming centres, safe injection sites and other enablers of addiction.
It’s difficult to support a warming Hub when within three weeks of opening , the very folks it is designed to help are spitting on security [there to protect staff and property] assaulting security, fighting with each other on the streets…disturbing the peaceful rest of neighbours and stealing from and damaging surrounding residences as they have for the previous duration of operation.
Full agreement this effort is enabling the continuance of addiction….a guilt driven program handsomely rewarding the host building
Just as an FYI, these should not be called “Safe injection sites”. A more appropriate term is “Safe Paraphernalia Sites” since all the drugs that are brought in an are not tested upon entry. Granted they are somewhat safer since observers are there to help, however, they are not fully “Safe injection sites”
Since it is the Liberal policies under Justin Trudeau which are creating this Ontario is knee capped Doug. As Ontario struggles to build more housing Trudeau’s Liberals open the door even wider on immigration of all kinds. The drug laws come directly from the Federal Liberals. My undertanding is the Federal Liberals at this time are trying to show Trudeau the door, his own party! And of course Poilievre questions the Liberals in parliament as to why Trudeau is not present even through in the building in Parliament. So the question of stepping up belongs to changing Federal policies which have enabled this so that the Provincial plans of building more housing, financing overun Toronto as they have been doing for their Shelter programs currently filled by illegal immigrants aka refugees. Watch youtube parliament sessions sometimes Doug you will get some answers there even though you would prefer to put it at the feet of your name sake Doug Ford.
I mean, if people continue to refuse to work, they have no choice but to bring in immigrants who are willing and able to work. Many of us have held down 3 jobs in our lives. It sucks, but you have to do what you have to do. These encampment people could afford rent if they worked 2 jobs. It sucks, but the immigrants will come in and do it without complaining.
And so the story goes Catherine. We are told that but remember many are unscreened. Roxham Road, plane loads through the air port arriving. I am not against immigration Catherine but I am againt it when the Federal government until recently said housing is not our responsibility. Infrastructure built to service a smaller populace, health care at the breaking point. Apparently the Federal government feels these things are inconsequential. Would you plan a dinner for 10 then open your door to anyone who cared to knock for that dinner? Well that is what is happening here. So please get over the fact that I am against immigration turning my statement into something it is not. One must prepare and if not you can see the results in the all the above I have listed.
“Many of us have held down 3 jobs in our lives. It sucks, but you have to do what you have to do. These encampment people could afford rent if they worked 2 jobs.”
Agree 100% Catherine.
I’m holding down 3 jobs now. If I can do it, they can do it.
BTW, I’m 71 years old.
Problem is Frenchy when you are drug addled you can not. First you must get off the drugs.
As far as 3 jobs goes try living in your truck doing long haul, you only get paid for when you got a load on. 50,000 miles not kilometers over a 3 months period is standard.
I see no reason to compare immigrants to established Canadians when you are talking about the fact this country is not prepared to incept them. And if you want I see vast numbers of them in TCHC in Toronto. Were they screened? And please don’t tell me they are Canadian born – my wife worked in community centres serving these projects and is familiar with the make up of the population living there. Many are on social services.
Additionally Catherine in city trucking I was employed in a city delivery firm that employed many newly immigrated drivers. I worked full hours of service most days, 13 driving, 15 in total to allow for on duty. This was due to the fact dispatch could not find the other drivers – they would not answer their radio. My wife worked for a company whose entire plant was comprised of immigrants hired through recommendation of the current workers – bad decision. They formed a union and refused to do the job duties going on strike. The company went bankrupt. I reply this often to your statement as it irks me to hear such false declarations. They are not all willing, non complaining workers. Please educate yourself before making such claims.
My husband is an immigrant and has worked 3 jobs for many years (only now is just working 1 full time job). We are well connected to the immigrant community- I usually see a work ethic much stronger than ours in Canada. That being said, I do think it depends on the country of origin and education level. I find many coming in from China, Japan, Korea starting/owning businesses and working in the medical field (which is badly needed). I’ve also noticed most employees at Tim Hortons and other fast food places to be immigrants (with the exception of teenagers). But yes I can see where you are coming from. Maybe Canada needs to be more selective- but we do have a massive labour shortage.
I think it better to laud people with a work ethic period not break down to country of birth status. Many examples can be made both from recent and long standing citizens who formerly immigrated. However there is always a contingent of people whether born here or recently arriving here that thinks the world is their oyster and what do you have for me today? I will say Catherine the very generous benefit system here in Canada has created many opportunities to not work. Also many workers although at work don’t from all backgrounds.
Dave, you speak truth when you say Canada’s benefit system provides many opportunities to …not… work
Fully obvious in the campers . many afforded disability pensions because they have ruined their mental and physical health due to addiction to ILLEGAL drugs.
Maybe it’s all part of the government’s stated goal of Canada becoming the world’s first Post-Nation state ?
3 jobs is a bit excessive but people need to do something. It’s idle hands that create problems. People are lacking purpose and meaning in their lives. You cannot do nothing all day everyday
The government has “No Choice” if people refuse to work?
So no control over those who choose an alternate style of illegal living ?
That outlook speaks volumes about Canadian Federal governing if there is any reality in that statement.
There are those unfortunately who are homeless etc due to unfortunate circumstance but this ever expanding social catastrophe needs to be halted before this country is ruined.
Where does the financial supply to buy drugs come from?
If there are so many people choosing this way of living are they receiving government financial aid without any requirements (i.e) job searching & obligation to produce evidence of such ?
There also are tax paying citizens who are assisting them with food ,firewood etc with good intention but is it having any beneficial effect changing the numbers ?
Seriously, Justin Trudeau can solve this situation? Is it because everything else he has done is working out so well? Maybe you should check his track record. I agree getting the addicted off drugs, help for those in need of support like the mentally challenged, and instruction on how to run a home are needed. There are programs in place for this. CMHA provides apartments and support. Community living provides services. Drug dealers are taking advantage of people receiving help. The drug dealers do not follow any rules except their own. They are the ones we need to go after. So many stories of drug deals in public. Why are the dealers not being caught and imprisoned?
Bingo…there lies the problem folks, Police need to home in on all the drug dealers and sent them up the river, not catch and release. Encampments would need to make choices….get clean or move!
Recently I meet a young lady who moved to Cobourg in August. She has quit one job she did not like, is currently working 2 part-time jobs, going to school part-time and living in an apartment. If somebody from out of town can get 3 jobs in 3 months then what exactly is stopping the “campers” from working? It is not lack of housing. Most of them, according to Chris, had housing. They destroyed it. The “campers” and enablers want more social housing including possible sleeping cabins. They have demands but what are they willing to give in return?
Maybe we should have a discussion on the responsibilities of people living in social housing/sleeping cabins. If the “campers” are not willing to do what it takes to get off drugs, for those addicted, and find jobs then why should tax payers give them anything? Without supervision and mandatory programs to end drug addiction/find employment any project, like sleeping cabins, will fail. 20% of Kingston’s sleeping cabins have burnt and they get moved from summer to winter locations. Finding a permanent location is just another problem to solve. A couple of days ago some people showed up at my door demanding I give them treats or they would play a trick on me. They were scary looking so I handed over some treats. They were also children who will grow up. It is time the “campers” grew up.
After speaking with some parents and the May at this event, it appears as though the schools are either not forwarding their concerns to the school board or the school board is ignoring the schools. It is currently not considered an issue to the powers that be, it appears as though parents are quite happy to see their kids walking past an encampment every day. Make sure you’re complaints are formally made please
I didn’t get into this presentation, but I was happy to speak to some people in the lobby who I felt I shared concerns with for the town. I appreciated that part very much. I watched a bit from home but didn’t feel this speaker represented me in moments that I did see.
“Meetings” in the context of the encampment, crimes, and the flaunting of laws are meaningless. Town By-Laws and Provincial laws must be enforced. Period.
Not doing so undermines faith in our political institutions and police services.
Selective law enforcement is just plain bad law enforcement. And the “third”
part of the failings of enforcement are the Provincial Courts. They are also part of the problem.
Enforcement Why Now ?? the only easy thing they Enforce are Parking Tickets
Not open Drug Use , or Trespassing
or ilegal Short Term rentals the list is long —- The next thing you know Planning and the Council will change the Zoning to Permit Short Term Encampments for a fee of course .
What did come out of all of this ??
I believe if Nothing Else the Do Nothing Town and Police Dept will have noticed that the Public
are not prepared to sit idle on this issue any more . While our public officials at all levels do nothing more than Talk and Talk etc . If it was only warmer out side the Band shell and Victoria Park would have been an excellent location to hold the Rallye as most of the attendees seemed to be from the downtown core , we could have walked as parking around the BestWestern was at capacity.. Listen up Council or move over .
I am not exactly sure what people were expecting from Mr. Bisson at last nights meeting.
“It’s too bad that 250 residents showed up and didn’t get to express their opinions.”
I can’t imagine the absolute chaos, wasted time, and total lack of agreement that would have ensued if this was allowed to happen. At the time of my writing we have just 12 comments on this post and already the disparity of comments is wide and varied and really not accomplishing anything concrete. I thought last night’s meeting was informative, constructive and very thought provoking. Honestly what did you expect? A miracle solution to Cobourg’s drug addiction and homelessness situation??? It was a seed planted and it is up to the citizens of Cobourg to nurture it and help it grow.
I expected James Bisson would have some direction, some energy and enthusiasm to start to do something that might eventually help homeless people. He simply stood up and gave himself 2 hours to talk about anything he liked. I would say he had nothing of any importance to say. He only explained and gave us a clear picture oof what is going on right now. No insight towards any solution was given.
As far as any potential he might have to run as a politician, he would fit right in – probably do absolutely nothing to help solve the homeless problem.
John Draper is absolutely right on in his analysis.
I’m sure you’re aware of a well known saying….
“Opinions are like …….. everybody has one” ..
Your advice would have been what had you been on the podium ?
He called it a “town hall”, and he said in his short video on his website (before the meeting–since taken down) that it would be “interactive”. So that is what the disappointed people expected … I give him credit for taking the initiative, and you are right “it was a seed planted”.
No one was, l’m sure, expecting a miracle solution but few were anticipating information on the referendum and a re-hash of the fact that the opioid crisis began with the manufacture of illegal drugs when the medical community realized the mistakes in prescribing these harmful substances for pain relief.
I am pleased that l chose not to attend, l would be insulted if l was spoken to like a toddler just learning about a condition that is world wide and impacting our well being due to the addicted and their way of life ….and has been a problem for many communities , villages, towns, cities, provinces and countries for several years .
I did attend the meeting last night and yes sat for the full two hours hoping James would finish in time for questions/answers but no such luck. We must keep this momentum going, we must have a true town hall chaired by a competent person and citizens must be able to express their concerns and come up with possible solutions that can be expressed to all levels of government as they all seem incapable of any action on their own. Is there a town owned facility that town council could let concerned citizens use? The next big problem is who would be the chair. Anyone from CTA here that could give some direction? I’m thinking I’ve been to so many meetings run by consultants hired by the town that there must be a way to keep this moving forward. Remember the sticky note consultant? I think it was in relation to a parks plan. Or a panel discussion with true questions/answers unlike the event at CCI that was completely run by GWC etc. Come on people brainstorm here let’s move forward on this. Lucas or anyone on council is there a town facility that could be used for a large meeting?
CT,
Interesting suggestion to have a moderated meeting (strong experienced “neutral” moderator), otherwise special interests and loud voices will take over. The BW room can hold 400 if a “no-tables” format is used.
Other options are:
CCC Gym 280-700
CCC Main rink 2000
Lions Club 400
Concert Hall at Victoria Hall 320
I’d vote for Rob Washburn!
I would question the neutrality. 2 interviews with Ms. McLean on “Consider This”. One in March and a second in September of this year.
If Victoria Hall isn’t free for citizens to gather for constructive debate then I have lost faith in democracy.
Good idea, Ray. And with zoom meeting technology access by more citizens could be enhanced. Needs a good meeting moderator, too.
The idea of Town Hall style meetings with citizens is part of the current Council governance review.
I will check into the idea of using Victoria Hall Concert Hall as a regular citizen meeting place.
I find it rich for M. Mutton to pop on here to support Town Hall meetings for citizens to address the failures of Council.
“I will check into the idea of using Victoria Hall Concert Hall as a regular citizen meeting place.” How about working on a comprehensive strategy to address crime and drugs in the Town of Cobourg. Stop doing busy work and start addressing the significant issues in our Town.
You do realize why so many taxpayers feel these meetings are necessary? Do you understand that taxpayers have been pleading for information, action and results to be shared from the very Council you are apart of? Why don’t you focus on being part of the solution within the framework and context of Town Council. Why doesn’t Council and the CPS issue a formal action plan on dealing with crime? Why doesn’t Council have a communication strategy to ensure those who elected you are informed and aware of what actions are taking place and the results of those actions? Why aren’t crime, homelessness/encampment and drugs a standing agenda item or why hasn’t Council established a task force to address these issues?
You can not be a bystander.
Rob,
Council has no authority over the cops (crime).
Council has no authority over the courts (justice)
Council has no authority over social services
Council has no authority over health (mental or otherwise)
Council has no authority over housing (temp, affordable or otherwise)
All of these are the domain of the County, Province and Feds
I get it that people are fed up and pissed off, but yelling/abusing Council won’t bring about solutions.
Have you called, talked to, yelled at or emailed:
Warden Martin,
MPP Piccini,
MP Lawrence,
Premier Ford,
Doug Downey Ont Attorney General ,
Arif Virani Federal Minister of Justice & Attorney General
JT.
These are the people with the power/authority to bring about change.
Go vent your frustration and anger on them.
Kick their asses.
I guess there is no need for having a Mayor and Council then?
All you heard prior to the election was all they could do for you – just vote for me.
At the end of the day they wanted to be elected so they could look after Cobourg. They are the leaders. Start by developing a strategy to mitigate crime and open drug use within their realm of authority – which includes enforcing existing by laws which falls under their purview. Authorize new bylaws to help do this.
Cobourg is our Town and elected officials need to step up as the Province or County are not going to solve Cobourg’s problems, chaos and mismanagement.
Bryan – you seem quick to absolve our Town Council of their responsibilities to the taxpayers. Two elected Councilors on the Police Service Board. Mayor on County Council. The Mayor and Council have a direct line to Piccini, Lawrence and Ford. Cobourg is the Town they were elected to lead, entrusted to represent and advocate on behalf of. They swore an oath. Instead of helping to book time in Victoria Hall, Clr. Mutton should kick their asses and demand more of the Council she sits on and the Mayor who leads it.
They can not be bystanders. They can not be pedestrians. Hope is not a strategy.
Rob,
I agree that there are two Council members on the police board AND a Cobourg resident appointed by Council. In theory, this should give Council control of the CPSB. In practice, this isn’t happening. Instead of “team players” we have 3 independent players.
Council fails to give marching orders to the two Council reps.
Perhaps Council — by way of the 2 Amigos who sit on the CPSB are in control? Some reigning in needs to be done by our less biased Council members.
This was posted on DM Beatty’s Facebook page. Come out on Tuesday night to meet with Councillors Beatty, Burchat and Bureau at a bar to discuss any concerns – no agenda.
https://m.facebook.com/nicolebeattycobourg
This is proof how disjointed and unproductive our Leadership are. If anything all Leadership should be meeting together and inviting the residents of Cobourg to discuss specific and documented agenda items on crime, drugs and the encampment. Not a one off Hi! At a bar.
Yes, disjointed and concerning. If there was a 4th Amigo it would be considered quorum, and therefore an “Official meeting”.
I agree with the word “Authority” however, council has a voice and should carry the citizens voices. We individuals have some voice but not as strong as our council. Voice, influence, attendance of other levels of government (County), communications, etc… It’s not just about authority.
CCoC,
I agree with “voice”.
Council could and should express Cobourg’s (residents’) concerns in official communications with the powers that be.
The Mayor should also be hammering the message home at EVERY County Council and social services meeting
The 3 (Left) Amigos beat you to it.
Yes. Interesting Mr. Bisson met with some Amigos last weekend at the Lion’s Halloween party — and then unexpectedly altered his disjointed “presentation”.
Have you or other members of council ever stated that open drug use and crime is not acceptable, and that you don’t support any people who are enabling campers to camp between 3 schools? We must be the only place in Ontario that thinks it’s fine that children walk past and encampment on their way to and from school. Do you think the residents of Cobourg have the right to know how their elected officials really feel? We depend on you to feel heard. Sincerely asking as I haven’t heard much from any of you and I feel like people should stand behind their ideals.
hi Mervin,
Yes, I do believe that Cobourg citizens deserve to know how their elected representatives feel and why. I also respect the fact the elected leader of Council is the Mayor and they speak officially on behalf of Council. And as Bryan points out, there is the matter of municipal jurisdiction. That said, a local government and municipality must also look out for the best interest of the community. From my view, at this moment I see that citizens are interested and want to help in finding solutions that are best for Cobourg. This focus and collective energy must not be wasted. I agree, we need a plan for action now.
On my part I seek to be informed and recognize that one solution does not fit all situations. Citizens share with me their views and also their correspondence from our representatives from other levels of government, news and solutions from other places e.g. Peterborough Police and their Safe Public Spaces approach; City of Kingston at court over implications of the Waterloo decision in light of a dangerous situation at one of their encampments; Phoenix Arizona ordered by a judge to clear the encampment in that city; death of woman living in a tent at an encampment in Cornwall; and, Port Hope considering establishing a transitional home hub at a closed school site.
In my view, any solutions for Cobourg must be sustainable and progressive towards the improvement of lives, and not put other citizens at risk. Citizens should not have to live in fear for the safety and security of their families and neighbours, their community. The fear is real, the pleading for help for solutions is real. Both you, and Rob in a post above, ask questions that deserve answers.
Also, I understand there are at least three main reasons for homelessness, how a person may find themselves without safe shelter. And, I firmly believe that with rights comes responsibilities. I hope this addresses some of your questions. I may also be reached at my Council email address.
I was hoping your response would sound less like a politician, but I do sincerely appreciate you taking the time to engage. I just wish you wouldn’t have such a tough time saying, open drug use is bad, there is never any reason why addicts should be walking around schools and that people should not be camping and instead using the resources available to them. We’re not asking for much, just acknowledgment in plain speak of things that should be common sense.
Exactly Mervin. We need more from our politicians now. We have very very serious problems in this town and nobody seems to be doing anything about it. Do we not realize that the cost of housing issue and the drug/crime issue are not the same thing? Yes – we need more housing. That will surely help the seniors living in cars and get more families off the housing wait list. What it won’t do is solve the drug/crime problem. The people at the encampment were housed on battel, division and major – and they wreaked havoc on the surrounding neighborhoods. As per the mayor there is plenty of shelter space available. These people have a drug/crime problem that should not be tolerated enabled. If they are worried about sleeping outdoors, take one of the shelter beds available/ and hopefully eventually get some real help.
I do appreciate your response, my comment mostly is directed toward those who choose not to acknowledge that there is any problem at all, and that this current situation is just a sign of the times. I’m aware of the challenges facing Canadians but we don’t need to fan flames
Miriam, it is interesting the way you wrote, “… I firmly believe that with rights comes responsibilities.” Some might think that rights come first leading to responsibilities. That is the wrong. Responsibilities and Rights come hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Some members of the encampment want housing but have never talked about their own responsibilities. Chris and Virginia seem to want people to believe they are caring people taking in homeless back when they had a place to live. But instead of being responsible, getting jobs, and taking care of the home they lived in they allowed the home to be destroyed. The taxes they would be paying if they had jobs could be used to help the homeless. Instead they added to the homeless problem by being homeless and contributing to making a home inhabitable. Chris and Virginia have shown no responsibility but want, want, want.
I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I have a tough time feeling sorry for parents who put themselves ahead of their children. There are open beds at the drug treatment facility going unused. They need to use them, if not for themselves, then for their children. I can’t imagine the selfishness it would take for a parent to wake up everyday and choose themselves. Almost every parent I know wakes up and chooses their children over themselves every single day. Being a parent is not a noble trait only expected of a few, it’s a privilege many share that is wasted by some.
Clr. Mutton – I’ve read your response several times and I’m left with a feeling that it was absent of anything resembling any action or a plan to address the problem. In fact, you appear to take on an observers perspective, as if you are waiting for the community to address the issue on behalf of Council.
Please tell us – What action has the Town/Council taken in the last 2-4 weeks? What are the results of those actions? What actions are planned in the future? Specifically, who is working on what actions? Who will report on the performance of the actions taken and how will they report them? Who is accountable to represent the Town to ensure the actions of other jurisdictions, align with the best interests of Cobourg taxpayers and how does this happen? How many encampers have sought and are in treatment and have moved out of the encampment? What is the total number of encampers and how many NEW encampers arrive each week? What is the total spend for taxpayers to address the encampment and related issues? Is the Town tracking this separately? Is there any reason to be concerned about the potential for biohazardous materials leaching into the creek? Do we know if there is a potential for this to happen and if so have we put controls in place?
That’s a pretty good start and frankly if you don’t know the answers to these questions, you have a responsibility (and a right) to find them and an obligation to ensure the community knows them as well.
This is what Michael Sprayson advocated for when he ran for Councillor – Regular Town Hall meetings.
I really hope more people start educating themselves on the issues in the next election and get out and Vote! We can partly blame ourselves for the apathy and low voter turnout.
Regular Town Hall Meetings, open communication channels, answers to questions from the citizens of Cobourg. There has been ZERO communication from this body since they were all sworn in. During the campaign, I invited questions from anyone who had them and answered them in a newsletter emailed directly to subscribers every single day for over a month. I posted the same on Instagram. I remember a few council members promising they would have full communication strategies – social media, videos, newsletters. I can count on one hand the number of those that have gone out from all councillors combined.
I talked about this issue [homelessness] when I was asked about it – which I still stand by the fact that it’s vagrancy, not homelessness that is causing so much upheaval in our community. I have been trying to build additional housing units for more than 4 years and was just turned down for an additional dwelling today. What we are living with is absolute insanity.
I think people need to ask themselves why they voted for almost the exact same council and expected different results. What, of note, has been solved, changed, or made better for citizens in the last year? In the last 12 months has your quality of life improved or declined? Councillors got a pay raise. We are still talking about a Governance Review. That’s it. That feels like the whole list. Impressive, isn’t it?
Absolutely ,vagrancy going unaddressed…open ILLEGAL drug consumption accepted without penalty…thieving unpunished…just to start.
Gosh I wish you had of won, Michael. Would you consider taking James Bisson’s place?
I know. Was shocked he didn’t and that so many tied to the enablers did. I think people are paying more attention now. Please run again next time! Although I will say, as I have earlier in the thread I’m happy with the Mayor and that’s about it at this point.
CT I’m sure many of the readers have no idea what some of your short forms mean – making you message indecipherable.
Doug, other than “CTA” (Cobourg Taxpayer Association) and “CCI” (Cobourg’s high school) what short forms are you not understanding?
GWC Government Water Closet ?
No, Green Wood Coalition. They provide services to help people. However, they do not seem to want to hold individuals, like the people living at the encampment, accountable for their actions. GWC are a big supporter of sleeping cabins and held an information session at CCI (the high school) http://www.greenwoodcoalition.com
I videotaped the whole thing and reviewed it the next day. Lots of repeats, non-relevant information, and, hence, lots of fast-forwarding! We need more than fact-finding and information. The community needs to weigh in with concrete ideas, and this event wasn’t it. It’s too bad that 250 residents showed up and didn’t get to express their opinions. It will be harder to get residents together again with their experience with this event. How about starting a “real” citizen association?
CC of C,
What is your vision/definition of a “real” citizen association?
When and where will you hold the first meeting?
Clrs Bureau, Burchat and the DM attebded. M Cleveland apparently didn’t make it into the room, but was out in the hallway.
Mr Bisson deserves credit for undertaking this event on his dime, time, research and recourses.
How many residents (including you CCoC) have come forward with “concrete” ideas?
How many council sessions have you attended, delegations given, letters/emails sent?
Experience has shown that open Q&A meeting quickly morph into “bitch sessions” and little if anything productive results.
Full points are due to Mr. Bisson for his effort and information. Hopefully others will be encouraged to organize something or participate in another event.
Consider the impact if 250 people filled the County Council chamber at the next meeting.
Consider if 250 people attended the next Cobourg Police Services Board meeting.
Two great ideas Bryan. Lots of surprised faces when 25 showed up at the last CPSB meeting. Let’s have at least 100 at Venture 13 November 21 at 9am for CPSB. Next County meeting November 15. No time posted but should be easy to find out.
Speaking of which, I attended the Police Board meeting where James Bisson made a delegation. My opinion? …he eviserated the Operating budget. I expected way more than what was delivered at the Town Hall meeting.
James also left many questions for me to ponder afterwards…. As a relatively new citizen to Cobourg, I would really appreciate John Draper giving us transplants a history lesson on how it came to be that the 2 small towns of Cobourg and Port Hope got their own Polices Forces?
I look to places like Collingwood (with more people than Cobourg) and they have the OPP.
Everybody is complaining (including the Police) that their hands are tied. So, I’m left scratching my head. Any historical background would be greatly appreciated.
Kathleen,
James is a smart guy and given that his work involves financial analysis, it’s not surprising that he “eviscerated” the cop’s ops budget. Expecting similar performance in a non-financial area, while hoped for, is unrealistic.
The meeting served its purpose; temperature taking, get people talking. Organized focused action will hopefully follow. Time will tell.
I’m sorry but I have to disagree, at its best, this was a misguided event run by someone with surface level understanding of the complexity of the issues. At its worse, a narcissistic garnering a following. From start to finish this is a case study in poor public relations and engagement, not to mention misrepresentation in advertising. If the situation in Cobourg was not so serious the event would be laughable – the whole thing is an embarrassment for the town.
Bryan, packing a county council meeting sounds appealing until you consider why that might actually help.
Each member of county council represents their own individual areas — Ostrander represents Brighton, Logen represents Alnwick/Haldimand, etc. There are no encampments and probably little petty crime in Brighton or Alnwick/Haldimand. Why would they want to spend their constituent’s taxes to address Cobourg’s problems? They are (and should be!) concerned with improving the lives of of their own constituents rather than of those many miles away.
Given many, many past posts regarding citizen apathy it is truly unfortunate that this many people showed up and splat, nada; especially the inability to have folks stand up and be heard. Regrettable.
Gerry, standing up in a bitch session might make people feel better but would any solutions actually emerge? Consider the current situation where we have opinions ranging from hard prison time (or even MAID) for addicts to free pharmaceutical quality drugs for everyone of every age.
Ken, I recognize that there are an extreme number of options/opinions. Unfortunately you’ve missed your mark, as in I’m regretting that there was a inability for people to voice their opinions, in an open forum that yes may have turned into a bitch session. However, that is what a democracy is all about and more importantly for our community actually engages people. The solutions we all seek will have to come from a coalition governmental orgs. Even then the solutions will not be acceptable to all.
I attended the “event” last night. Hoping to hear how the Town, County and Province were going to manage the Homeless situation in Cobourg. And how taxpayers could help. My take from the speech is that the Town, County and Province have given up on how to manage our Homeless situation. And will call on Green Wood Coalition for instruction. To say the 250 plus citizens in attendance were shocked and disappointed would be a huge understatement. Shame on our Town Council who appear to me to be the organizers of the event.
I too attended last night’s disappointment. While I credit Mr. Bisson for arranging the meeting, his needless blethering extended what could have been a productive meeting to in part, a civics lesson on the 1995 Quebec referendum, .and of no real value other than to Mr Bisson, along with his lack of video technical expertise…did no one suggest testing your equipment prior to a presentation. The content of the meeting could have been completed in 30 minutes…this would have left time for a discussion that I believe most people who attended were desperate for.
His suggestion about separation and segmentation re. the drug users and homeless had some merit…was he able to show his stats on that? i.e. how many at the camp are truly homeless vs those that ARE the problem. Those stats would then allow the town/county or whomever to address those truly in need and those that need handling of a different sort…counseling, rehab or hard policing.
I suggest that if Mr. Bisson were to hold another meeting, as he indicated, he take a back seat, and let a true moderator take the podium. That approach may produce productive discussion vs a monologue.
Where on earth would you get this ridiculous idea?
Should read
“Shame on our Town Council who appear to me to be the organizers of the event.”
Where on earth would you get this ridiculous idea?
Because that’s what happened. This is just my view but I think GWC and Town Leadership are using Mr. Bisson as their intermediary. Look at “wearecobourg.ca” website now. Day after the meeting and Legion Fields by the CCC is targeted for mobile homes for the encampment during the winter.
We need to be able to trust Leadership, but seeing what is going one makes it very difficult.
“Because that’s what happened. This is just my view but I think GWC and Town Leadership are using Mr. Bisson as their intermediary. Look at “wearecobourg.ca” website now. Day after the meeting and Legion Fields by the CCC is targeted for mobile homes for the encampment during the winter.
We need to be able to trust Leadership, but seeing what is going one makes it very difficult”.
Please tell us your sources for this incredulous claim, if it is your opinion just say that. Otherwise “Fake News”!
I did say it was an opinion i.e. “just my view”.
Ben?
Ben?
crickets
As usual frenchy a trendy word that does not fit the situation. If you are going to use it understand how to use it!
I think I used it properly ben. I was waiting for your reply to Rational’s post about you accusing him of spreading “Fake news”.
And heard nothing, no apology, nothing.
Crickets.
Rational: This is just my view but I think GWC and Town Leadership …
Ben replied: Please tell us your sources for this incredulous claim, if it is your opinion just say that. Otherwise “Fake News”!
Rational replied:I did say it was an opinion i.e. “just my view”.
They are not, Council where not involved. It was a dedicated group of concerned citizens who made it happen for Bisson.
They remain anonymous out of security concerns.
The organizers where not town council. Mr. Brisson paid for this, but had a lot of help from other people who posted on social media and distributed flyers. They worked hard to make this happen but will not be sold out again. He is on his own next time.