Provincial Grant for Transition House.

At a special County Council meeting to authorize acceptance of a Provincial grant for $2,469,500, Warden and Brighton Mayor Brian Ostrander asked if the money was to be used to clean people out of the encampment. The answer is NO. The money is for capital costs to support conversion of the 310 Division property: that is, for upgrades and renovations. It is not to be used for purchase of the property – this was funded by County reserves. In any case, clearing the encampment is outside County jurisdiction. However, Rebecca Carman, Associate Director of Housing & Homelessness said that it is hoped that the 310 Division Street project would (this is my paraphrasing) be more attractive to folks currently unhoused – including those at the encampment.

A good part of the Council meeting revolved around Councillors wanting to understand how the grant came about. The first thing to note is that it’s a “Year end grant” using money in the Provincial budget that has not been spent and that the County did not formally apply for. Cramahe Mayor Mandy Martin described it as being like a Santa Claus gift and awarded to the County because of the amazing amount of work done over the years which is being recognized. She went on to say that “This project is so far ahead of other communities, they are looking to us. This is exemplary, text book”.

One reason Northumberland was awarded the grant was because the Province thought it was a good “investment” and it was “shovel ready”.  (Shovel ready means that work can start within 120 days). When asked where did the dollar number come from, Rebecca responded that Public Works had made estimates.

Mayor Cleveland asked for clarification: he said that on the one hand we are told that we are still working on operational details yet funding implies that they are settled enough to know the cost. In response, CAO Jennifer Moore answered with an example: We know we will need fencing but the details are still to be worked out.

Although more project details will be provided at the regular County Council meeting on March 20, it seems that some input from the public engagement is being factored into the “renovation” estimates. As well as fencing being required, Rebecca also mentioned security and a smoking area. She also mentioned that getting the funding now means that some items that might have been left for upgrades in future years could happen now. Examples would be lockers and showers in drop-in areas.

When asked what happens to unspent money, Rebecca said that it goes back to the Province – but she said it would all be spent.

The county allows media questions – so Cecilia Nasmith asked for the status of the discussion with the Town of Cobourg about their Licensing By-Law. CAO Jennifer Moore responded that there have been meetings about a potential agreement – conversations will continue and will be documented and brought back to Council meetings of both the Town (March 27) and the County (March 20).  This is in addition to a report on the engagement effort – now available on the meeting agenda and included in Resources below.

At the end of the meeting, a motion was passed to execute all agreements with the Province “that are required to secure the additional funding from the Homelessness Prevention Program in the amount of $2,469,500 for the 310 Division Street, Cobourg Shelter Modernization Project ….. ahead of the provincial deadline of March 15, 2024”.

Resources

Addendum

News from County – 15 March 2024

County and KPR District School Board finalize property sale to advance plans for affordable housing

Northumberland County and the Kawartha Pine Ridge District School Board are announcing today finalization of the successful negotiation and acquisition of a 14-acre parcel of land located at 699 Westwood Drive and 637 Burwash Street, in Cobourg. The sale is another significant step forward in Northumberland County’s efforts to address the pressing need for affordable and attainable housing.

The property, previously owned by the Kawartha Pine Ridge District School Board, was declared surplus by the board and placed on the market for sale under the requirements of Ontario Regulation 444/98. Northumberland County purchased the property for $1.5M, with another $250k per developable acre of land – up to 10 acres – to be paid following environmental assessments, for a total investment at or below $4M.

Full news release here.

 

NOTE:  Comments have now been disabled on this post – there’s so much repetition. 

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Thumb
27 days ago

These days you can’t look sideways at a person without being accused by some do-gooder of trampling on their rights. As far as I’m concerned they lost their rights as soon as the needle went in their arm or when they decided to squat on private property. I have no sympathy for these people whatsoever and I care less of what people think of my feelings toward this whole circus. Do you really think they care about us, the only thing they care about is when’s my next cheque coming and where can I ” score ” This whole thing should be taken care of the old fashioned way, kick them in the butt and tell them to ” MOVE ON “

Rational
27 days ago

NC Council met yesterday to discuss 9 recommendations from community engagement. L. Cleveland questioned two of these -1) Volunteer Selections and 2.) selection of the Community Liaison Committee. His suggestions basically discounted.

The article on this council meeting is in Wednesdays Todays Northumberland.

What strikes me is the pushback Cleveland received on his requests. The Mayor of the Town that is going to get the “super” Transition House should have say in these matters and not just be placated. He seems to carry no authoritative weight, and NC Council is going to do it exactly as they want – and don’t appear to care about Cobourg as a whole.

Cobourg Council should legally appeal the decision to place a low barrier Transition House in Cobourg, and until all matters are resolved to Cobourg’s satisfaction it can not move forward. Let a Judge decide.

Rob
Reply to  Rational
26 days ago

I really like that idea however I suspect most of Council probably think a low/no barrier transition house is a good idea – Liberal ideologues looking for offensive street names and wanting to put affordable housing on $5m pieces of waterfront property. I think common sense left Victoria Hall in search of personal agendas.

They think they can control it with by-laws and community liaisons…this thing is already out of control.

Last edited 26 days ago by Rob
Sandpiper
27 days ago

The Majority , Tax Paying.and Law abiding Citizens are Suffering based on the the Life Choices
and Needs of the Few . not to mention at the hands of our Political leaders at all levels of Govt.

Mervin
27 days ago

California just passed Prop 1. There’s a lot to it but my biggest takeaway is it will fund locked-door psychiatric institutions and involuntary treatment, and take away funding from community based mental health groups. In our community I believe these ideologically driven community based groups have emboldened and have encouraged a learned helplessness amongst our drug addicted. Better late than never for California. People are waking up!

Evelyn
Reply to  Mervin
26 days ago

This quote was taken from The Guardian on California Prop 1 and why the vote was so close, but passed.

“Disability rights advocates also fiercely opposed Prop 1 because it will fund locked-door psychiatric institutions and involuntary treatment, which could be counterproductive and re-traumatize people with severe mental illness and substance abuse disorders”.

Sadly, many professionals continue to support offering help in the community when it’s obvious that many need to be in locked-door institutions.

Mervin
Reply to  Evelyn
26 days ago

Sadly drug addicts are now considered to have a disability, qualifying them for more government assistance. Taxpayers are now supporting the same drug dealers that are the number one cause of death for people under the age of 40. The world has gone mad

Andre
27 days ago

Alberta Social Services Minister Jason Nixon interview on their new experimental approach of dismantling encampments without notice and triaging occupants with intervention. He describes the organized crime, problems encountered and cost accountability. I thought he is not a typically guarded politician. His own father was homeless for a time. Hitting “L” on your keyboard fast forwards through embedded commercials.

Downtowner
Reply to  Andre
26 days ago

Everyone should listen to this podcast…..it identifies what we have discussed ( even if in it’s infancy here) that there is a true criminal element alive and well in the encampment culture ….and the hierarchy there is victimizing their own. This is something that was exposed as operational when the two drug houses that have been removed from our community were closed….and continues wherever else in town there is an opportunity for addicts to group together and continue to poison themselves. We REALLY need to find a better approach to this issue and it involves treatment….housing for these folks is not the real problem here……unavailable, unrestricted house is.

Old Sailor
27 days ago

This morning I was walking east on King Street from the Library. I heard the siren of a police cruiser which was parked at the Circle K store – NW corner of King St.and Spring St. Two officers were dealing with a nutjob and his friend. An apparent drug overdose situation. One officer was telling the nutjob to shut up and listen. Then came the siren of an EMS van. I assume with a staff compliment of two. Then came the siren of a fire truck with its compliment of staff. If I had been carrying my pocket calculator I would have tried to estimate the cost to Cobourg of this overdose situation – aside from hospital care and a police and EMS escort into emerg. There may not have been enough digits on my calculator for this exercise!

Who is paying for all of this? Cobourg taxpayers? The County? Why do we need the firetruck showing up? Surely building rehab lockdown type lodging for the drug addicts is way cheaper and more effective than the all in cost of daily visits for the drug addicts by the police, EMS, firefighters and hospital staff. Has all common sense been cast aside regarding dealing with drug addicts?

Andre
Reply to  Old Sailor
27 days ago

While I’m sure I’m not entirely correct, when I see multiple overlap of services converging, I see a “pay party”. The KPI metrics generated justify more of it.

Downtowner
Reply to  Old Sailor
27 days ago

There does not seem to be any common sense dealing with drug addicts…homeless because of their inability to act responsibly. It is a Health crisis for sure….l notice Ford was in Belleville to announce the begins of a treatment center….will we be impacted by the right of refusal of care by these folks next l wonder.Somehow there has to be a reckoning where we take back our way of living. …..Common sense is the least common of all

Bea
Reply to  Old Sailor
27 days ago

The cost of these emergency responses is one thing, even though often the end result is the person involved refuses to go to the hospital.

The other concern is that if anyone else in town has a medical emergency at the same time, the response time could be affected.

I do understand why multiple services usually respond to emergency calls but maybe a different approach could be explored.

Gerry
Reply to  Old Sailor
27 days ago

You see the fire dept on medical emergencies because of the triage of the call in communications. All three emergency services are dispatched to all unconscious patients, whether, in your words, they are for nut jobs and friends or, as I like to call them, people in need. If interested, view the National Academy of Emergency Medical Dispatch and their Triage Protocols.

Gerry
Reply to  Gerry
27 days ago

You can TD all you want; what I stated is reality. I retired as both a medic and a medical dispatcher from 1974-2007.

Thumb
Reply to  Old Sailor
27 days ago

YUP !!

Bill
27 days ago

I just finished watching the video of Pete Fisher talking with the mayor. Its incredible that Cleveland spent 38 minutes answering questions that could have been done in a timeframe of ten minutes at most. Its like an endurance test listening to him speak. A lot of what he said was all fluff and no stuff! Basically, I gather that the new By-Law, if and when enacted, will have little effect (no teeth).Things will continue as they are (or worse). Division Street 301 (new Transition House) will continue to operate as low barrier and crime and social disorder will tarnish Cobourg as a desirable place to live.

Rational
28 days ago

Another comment in the Pete Fisher interview yesterday that seems confusing. L. Cleveland said:

“What this bylaw is doing, actually, is a bylaw to protect the most vulnerable in our community.”

You need to read the full discussion point, but to me it appears the By Law is to protect the drop in addicts from not being treated properly by those running the Shelter (310). He goes onto to liken 310 having caring rules like a LTC facility or hospital.

I thought the By Law was to protect residents of Cobourg and businesses. We don’t even get a mention or concern.

To me Cleveland just doesn’t understand, or just doesn’t care, how concerned and upset Cobourg residents are over how he and Council are doing their jobs.

Aleta
Reply to  Rational
27 days ago

I watched the interview and was aghast at the comments made by L. Cleveland–he repeatedly called the homeless addicts vulnerable. Initially, the story was that a new bylaw would be similar to the one that citizens demanded in Whitby (for their protection); now, it seems that it is to protect “the most vulnerable” in our town. I am so confused by all the double talk (and gaslighting) that I feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone. I agree with you LC just doesn’t get it.

Rob
Reply to  Aleta
27 days ago

Agreed – the Town is rudderless. The CAO is mute and doesn’t appear to be much more than a talking head for Cleveland. Cleveland seems quite enamored with himself but appears to be losing the 310D battle of attrition that a more seasoned politician would understand – this is a marathon not a sprint. Unfortunately his loss, is ours. Do what is best for the taxpayers and it is hard to go wrong!

I see very little coming out of Liberal DM Beatty and even less from any other member of Council, likely held in in check by the mansplaining Mayor. Even Councilor Adam B. who is usually kissing babies and cutting ribbons is unusually quiet…I suspect adding 2 dozen new positions, 9% tax increase, failing to deal with Brokeside encampers, the ongoing 310D debacle, the Storm Water taxation program, failing to produce a strategic, Strategic Plan, increased crime/decreased punishment and giving themselves raises and a pension must leave them all wanting to keep a low(er) profile.

Please tell me what actions have been taken to improve the Town and/or the life of taxpayers. There must be something…

Andre
Reply to  Rational
27 days ago

You could be right but I see it differently: in the political competition for who can appear most compassionate, Mayor Cleveland is claiming the prize and in so doing he shields the by-law from criticism.

At minute 6:30 he notes the dereliction of any upper level of government to define Standard of Care so he is free to grab that slice of free warm pizza resting on the table.

Rational
28 days ago

The quote below is from an interview Pete Fisher posted yesterday with L. Cleveland. It was in response to being questioned why By Laws are not enforced at Brookside. Cleveland infers that the Brookside sale will close in a few weeks. Does anyone know if it has been sold and to who?

“When the sale of the property closes in a few weeks, he continued, the province will be out of the picture and municipal bylaws can be invoked”. 

Tucker
Reply to  Rational
28 days ago

Is this statement just a “ruse” to keep us quiet. If not, then he should advise the public who purchased the property and when will they be cleared out. I’m sure the “campers” know already or is this just another “behind our back” purchase.

Scottie
Reply to  Tucker
28 days ago

County of Northumberland seems to be in a “buying up real estate” mode presently without ANY consultation with the surrounding residents … perhaps Brookside will be another of their purchases on which they wish to construct/repurpose for “affordable housing and low barrier shelters” — I shudder to think of the repercussions if this were to be the case for this large plot of land in the centre of everything! Hopefully my suspicions are unfounded and the purchaser will turn out to be something/someone who will strengthen, not detract from Cobourg.

Rob
Reply to  Scottie
27 days ago

I think Pete Fisher should investigate and find out who it is….maybe all we need to do is ask?

Aleta
Reply to  Tucker
27 days ago

I am guessing a “ruse” …

Kevin
Reply to  Rational
27 days ago

“When the sale of the property closes … ” It is still listed for sale. There are multiple parties interested. Eventually it will sell and close. Probably that will be “weeks” from now. 5, 25, ___ weeks?

Last edited 27 days ago by Kevin
Rational
Reply to  Kevin
27 days ago

Do you think when Cleveland says “when the sale …. closes in a few weeks” it really is not sold then? So he doesn’t mean it is going to actually close in a few weeks – just a figure of speech.

The Mayors continues to complicate/distract matters – but always says “let me be perfectly clear”. It seems this is all a game to him – but it is not.

Last edited 27 days ago by Rational
Aleta
Reply to  Rational
27 days ago

The best part is he says “let me be perfectly clear” and then he is not clear at all … I think there has been no “sale” yet and he misspoke.

Kevin
29 days ago

Lots of opinions, lots of concerns, justifiable so. Cannabis was legalized 5 years ago, consumption is on the rise. The Daily — National Cannabis Survey, 2023 (statcan.gc.ca)
Why would anybody think normalizing or supporting hard drug use will help? It will only increase the amount of hard drugs used and all the related problems, theft, homelessness, death. It will help drug dealers and people who support drug users.

All the renovations and support services available will not help the hard drug users unless the users get drug rehab. Get help with substance use – Canada.ca
Apparently there is much stigma and we are not supposed to used certain language, like addict. Changing the words does not change the problem. DEI, or DIE as some call it, has been shown to actually cause more harm than good. Saying ‘person who uses drugs’ instead of ‘drug user’ does not help the person get off drugs. Renovating 310 Division could help people on the social housing waiting list but will not help a ‘person who uses drugs’ if that person wants to keep using drugs.

Andre
Reply to  Kevin
28 days ago

A person who lives outdoors may get ~$1250/month ODSP which covers food but nothing else until they die. (If they don’t have a drug habit they won’t want to suffer proximity with those that do.) That seems like a good deal for the government, relative to the cost of civil servants, buildings, and supplies: more money for pensions. Factor in externals and see it as a tax on society that the government deems Equitable.

Wraparound Services is brilliantly vague while giving the illusion of a warm hug and caring government at re-election time. A Wraparound Institution for those given a jail or rehab choice and choose the latter is labelled unkind.

Opioid Normalizing Motives – exhaustive list?
1. Government laziness masked by ideology. (group)
2. Homeless industry perpetuation of valued clients. (group)
3. Anarchy by proxy. (individual)
4. Victim by proxy. (individual)

Dave
Reply to  Andre
28 days ago

Reply to Kevin/Andre – don’t expect any miracles. Society has lost its way. The familly unit has weakened – benefits for one parent families, common law, schools allowing delinquent students to suffer no consequence, values not being taught. Basic skills for children seem to be lacking on how to take care of themselves, live within their means, simple things like food preparation at home – can’t count how many people who order in or eat out for the majority of their week – we hear a lot of dyfunctional young people that need a raft of pyschiatric care – not what I recall about the quality of life offered – something new for upcoming generation would be refreshing – we have made a commitment, we are staying together and will raise you, Expect more of the kind of society we have unless so many in society take responsibility as prior generations did.

Last edited 28 days ago by Dave
Andre
Reply to  Dave
28 days ago

Cui Bono?

The civil service as a whole through growing dependence.

I see that and expect more. You get what you design for.

Informed
Reply to  Kevin
27 days ago

For all the public knows maybe a safe injection site is planned for 310 Division. Nothing surprises me anymore. I think there are a lot of secrets.I hope I’m wrong.

Thumb
29 days ago

Why does the town/county not just go in and break up this camp? It’s been done elsewhere or is there a law in Cobourg to prevent this. Or, does having them there open up access to provincial money that otherwise would not be accessible. Hmm! just asking.

rod
Reply to  Thumb
29 days ago

Me thinks It,s because the CPS is understaffed and the Canadian Army would need room to set up barracks somewhere other than on Private Property. Also the military field artillery vehicle parked by community center would need fuel at $ at #!*% $1.43 a litre

Bill Thompson
Reply to  rod
28 days ago

The Canadian military now permit landed immigrants to join and fill the ranks as there aren’t enough young Canadians even interested to fill the shortages in the defence of their own country not to mention direction in their lives !
Instead. expect law abiding tax paying citizens to provide them with support for their directionless lives ! Shameful ! .🤬
National Service should be a requirement here which would benefit the individuals in direction however …..but never happen as freedom is taken for granted by those who’ve never had it threatened and the government isn’t even interested.

NAI
Reply to  Bill Thompson
28 days ago

This is a tangent comment not related to the thread but I agree with your national service comment. At the very least, we should have every highs chool student walk the western front battlefields in France and Belgium. I did that during my military service and let me tell you – it changed me. All to say, wholeheartedly agree withy your post Bill.

Aleta
Reply to  Thumb
28 days ago

It is a good question with no clear answer. Town officials say its the province’s responsibility because they are on Infrastructure Ontario land. Infrastructure Ontario ignores the issue and puts the property up for sale to get rid of the problem. The province throws a bunch of money at the county to deal with homelessness. The County decides that Cobourg should be the mecca for all homeless people in the vicinity. Meanwhile, the advocates and enablers have shown themselves to be a lot stronger and more persistent than anyone in local politics. And on and on we go. Historians one day will look back at this post-Covid society, and wonder what the hell we were thinking!!

rod
29 days ago

“COBOURG THE FEEL GOOD TOWN” is now becoming a joke. Perfect new location for the Just For Laugh Festival to have it’s new head quarters located here. No lack of experience of jokers presently running NC and Cobourg, to join the once successful but now deep in debt venture. But wait!! to close the deal we residents must foot the estimate $5M bill for it’s relocation and name change to “COBOURG THE FUNNY LITTLE TOWN”. Hell Nooooooproblem

Rob
29 days ago

Do we know if the County had a right of first refusal on this property? I’m curious why the Town wasn’t interested in the investment and didn’t pursue the purchase. The County appears to have once again beaten the Town to the punch on a property acquisition. What about transparency and consultation with taxpayers about the future use of this property…I can’t imagine anyone in the Westwood subdivision, in particular those backing onto this land, are very happy.

BTW – Does surplus land not exist in any other part of Northumberland County or are County officials solely focused on screwing up Cobourg and making it the geared to income/affordable housing mecca?

Cobourg, as business, is not functioning effectively. We have a leadership vacuum. The CAO is sadly not up to the task. The Mayor, while he demonstrated some leadership related to 310D, can not be trusted to hold the line. Council should not be trusted to make decisions in the best interest of taxpayers.

The Town should suspend any/all decisions and discussions related to the prime piece of real estate at the end of Durham Street. They are not in a position to move this forward. The County should not be considered or consulted as a potential partner in that property as it is not suitable for affordable housing. I have no faith in Councils ability to plan or utilize this property effectively and in the best interest of taxpayers.

Downtowner
Reply to  Rob
29 days ago

Rob, it’s like you read my mind! I had the very question you raised in conversation with someone this morning……is there no other properties in the County that come up for consideration for projects. Not every venture requires access to the County seat and services….Time the County spreads the special joy that only they seem capable of handing out…..cruel and unusual punishment for the citizens of Cobourg to be the only recipients of all of this attention

Thumb
30 days ago

OK, I have a few questions. I’m new to this so bear with me. Approx. how many are in the encampment and are they all Cobourg residents. If not, where are they from and why did they pick Cobourg. I can guess why, but!. Does Port Hope, Brighton, Colborne have the same issue.We are not going to get rid of the encampment on this blog and it doesn’t look like our government wants to what with all the $$ they are throwing at it.So that leaves me with one final question. Who has the gonads to face this thing head on and gets some real action?

Nikki
Reply to  Thumb
30 days ago

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: as long as there are a plethora of services for the addicts this situation will only continue to the point of boiling over. Too many people in our County make a living off the backs of the drug addicted homeless folks, to a degree I believe they are being exploited. If there are no addicts then the above noted “services” are not needed. And government funding dries up. FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Thumb
Reply to  Nikki
29 days ago

Yup, exactly. For the most part, the cops should be clamping down on the pushers, do that and the users will go somewhere else. I don’t think there’s a law against that, is there?Something tells me that these ” homeless ” are not what they appear to be. You know there are a lot of people who like to use the system and get a free ride.Maybe were going at it the wrong way. It’s not the system that needs changing, it’s the people who run it. What has this town come to, that you can just walk in and take over Government Property and have people falling all over each other to enable you? I wouldn’t be surprised if some “official’ is somehow profiting off this. Just Sayin!

James Bisson
Reply to  Nikki
28 days ago

Financial reports for 2023 fiscal year will be filed soon. Looking forward to seeing where the money went

James Bisson
Reply to  Thumb
28 days ago

There are about 30 in the encampment. Based on the statistical data up to a third are not from Northumberland. No other township has this level of issue as all homeless resources for the County are in Cobourg. The only way we’ll get action on this file is if the residents of Cobourg organize and get engaged. The authorities have and continue to fail us. They were supposed to evict them last September. They didn’t and never said why? I’ve tried to get them to understand our plight. I just found out I insulted them and am considered a radical. I’m ok with that. They’ve forgotten that they work for US, not the other way around.
If a bunch of addicts and their proponents have paralyzed 3 levels of government, why are we sitting back and taking it? There was only 4 people from the public at the delegation I gave. That’s not enough to impress them. When they spend millions and make things worse, leave us in a sea of crime, don’t enforce the law, drive people and businesses out of town, and refuse to even listen let alone act for the voters and taxpayers, there’s nothing to lose. I lived with a drug house in my neighborhood. Never again and I refuse to push the problem to someone elses. I don’t care who leads, but this is a fight we have to win.

Thumb
30 days ago

When I was a kid in grade school [St.Mike’s] every day after school I would ride my bike out HWY 2 to work on a farm. Hayin, picking tomatoes, whatever, and on saturdays I would wash cars for whatever I could get. In the winter I would shovel snow to make money. Why? because back then we helped ourselves, we didn’t look for handouts. Me and a friend used to walk from Cobourg to Grafton and back picking up pop bottles and cashing them in for 2cts.a piece to make money to live. I grew up with nothing, my siblings and my mother did whatever it took to make it, without handouts. Nowadays the ” IN THING ” is to help everybody that’s too lazy to get off their ass and help themselves. You think I liked doing what I did?, NO, but I did it because it was the right thing to do.As long as there’s drugs, this problem is only going to get worse and it’s time to do something, take away their tents and go after the drug pusher’s and clean up this crap, because if you think it’s bad now, wait until summer.

Catherine
Reply to  Thumb
30 days ago

Exactly. My husband and I are very much middle class. We live not far from the encampment in a nice home we’re really proud of. We have a bit extra sometimes in our budget for a vacation. We’ve never had a handout from our families or from anyone. We didn’t come from amazing circumstances but we knew what we wanted for ourselves and our family and we literally clawed our way to a middle class life by working freaking hard. We gave up a large chunk of our 20’s to just work 2-3 jobs each to get ahead, and now we’re semi comfortable. People forget that those that are living a half way decent life actually worked for it. I’m really glad I never got any government handouts, as I may not have worked as hard when I was younger. I do think the handouts are harming people in the long run. Is it hard to get ahead? Yes. But living in a tent is harder. Who’s advising these tent goers? I’m hearing they’re not all on drugs. They do likely have their government cheques coming in, so while advocates (and us) are paying all of their expenses, why don’t they put their government cheques into a HYSA? It’s an opportunity with interest rates so high to get ahead. In the 8 months they’ve been living there for free they could have made a lot of money in interest. People just don’t think outside the box anymore or look for creative ways to get ahead. It’s frustrating that advocates are not advising them on how to get ahead.

Dave
Reply to  Thumb
30 days ago

Thumb as the years have gone on I have known so many people on benefits of some kind. Some work under the table in labour jobs, others for family pulling substantial income from babysitting, household assists to working family members stating they are unable to work, selling crafts on the internet, participating in other income producing ventures undeclared. There are many ways around declaring income and still collect benefits. Here in Cobourg there are many doing just that and they don’t live in the encampment. People that have not been raised with much ethical personal attributes. It is there – therefore they take advantage of it.
Canada is fast becoming a country of socialism with little work ethic. In employment I found many cases also of it being a popularity contest – people that learned saying “You’re absolutely correct sir rather than rewarding the people that attend and do their jobs these people were rewarded over the people making the company money.

Last edited 30 days ago by Dave
Thumb
30 days ago

Cobourg is nothing like it was when I was growing up. Back then you could walk downtown, day or night, with no worries. The biggest thing I worried about was what I was going to wear to the dance at the ” Pav ” [ remember that?] on Sat. night. Now, these days you can’t do anything without some so-called do gooder cryin foul. We didn’t have homeless people, except for 1 man, Pete the puffer, who NEVER bothered anyone or asked for anything. Now we have painted crosswalks, people squatting on crown land and “do gooders” falling over each other trying to help, when all their doing is enabling them. Time we took back OUR town and run them the hell out.

Cobourg taxpayer
1 month ago

Whoa Nelly, I am getting whiplash watching our tax dollars getting tossed around. The county happily accepts over $2.4 million also to be spent on 310 Division that few in Cobourg want if it is a low barrier shelter as per Transition House. The county also purchases land to build taxpayer subsidized housing on Westwood. This provision of housing is costing the taxpayer a mint yet the squatters stay as Northumberland Tiny Homes group has raised its ugly head again demanding tiny homes. All I want is the squatters gone can someone do that?

Jade
1 month ago

Not sugar coating my opinion… the town of Cobourg is one sad looking unkept sh**t hole. Council , cops and County has no balls to uphold the law. They don’t give 2 sh**s what residents think or want. Nor does PC Doug or MP or MPP even want to listen. 310 was bought without notice, no one taking account of business or residents near by. If you think encampment addicts will move when 310 is open then your wearing rose color glasses (officials)
The crime will continue, no charges laid , but protect your property and use force , we will be charged. Pathetic irresponsible enforcement we have. Members of council ignore who they work for , CPS you can’t depend on ever to protect who pays their wages, and the province don’t care unless it’s about the big man and his friends. Absolute truth!
As a town that i was born and raised in , could not be more disappointed. Your safer in Toronto than here.
Can’t do banking , walk , or enjoy anything here because God forbid we challenge the addicts in our way. The enablers are idiots and the BS they spew is pathetic. Can’t wait for summer with 310 in the path of visiting people and up the road to my living space. You think I will stand for addicts hanging around and causing harm to me or property? Think again. I will do what i have to because no one else will protect me. Just try and charged me CPS. I will laugh right in your face as well as the Judge. Cobourg homeless addicts will triple in size because they know they can come here and not be bothered by laws. Laws that are not forced at all. I say BS to all officials here. Just pussy footing around looking after the proper people and letting the town turn into S**T

VeeTee
Reply to  Jade
1 month ago

Well Jade, I think you have hit the nail on the head! You have put into black and white what I have been thinking for months, but didn’t have the guts to do so. I imagine many other residents think the same way!!

Jade
Reply to  VeeTee
30 days ago

Many people I’m sure feel the same but don’t know what to do or say. That’s a point right there.. most feel.. what is the use in speaking up ? They are right ti be honest. Nothing we say will make a bit of difference to those that are paid to protect us here. God forbid the hard working people with homes and property should ever speak up about the addicts and criminals that destroy our property. The town officials simply have no balls to do right by us

VeeTee
Reply to  Jade
29 days ago

Well Jade, once again you have brought me out of my shell. I am sick and tired of the way residents of Cobourg are being treated!
We have lived in the once beautiful town of Cobourg for over 50 years. It is unbelievable that the disgusting mess and stench of the Slum City Encampment at Brookside is still in operation after 6 months!! Drive through Cobourg and encounter the drugged out zombies laying in doorways, jumping into traffic.
What happened to the Police motto “Serve and Protect”?? Drive past the Police Station and count the cars in the Police parking lot. When do they patrol? Have you seen any foot patrols?

It’s time our Mayor had a serious talk with our Chief of Police and remind him that the employer tells him, the employee, what is expected of him, and his staff. Not the reverse with the employees calling the shots!

Get rid of dealers, cut off the supply to Slum City Encampment, and send the addicts back to where they came from.

My deepest sympathies to those who live in the beautiful houses across from the slum city encampment. How depressing to have to face that problem every day!
,

Bryan
Reply to  VeeTee
29 days ago

VeeTee,

You wrote “It’s time our Mayor had a serious talk with our Chief of Police and remind him that the employer tells him, the employee, what is expected of him, and his staff. Not the reverse with the employees calling the shots!”

You got it right that it’s the PC calling the shots. However, neither the Mayor nor Council have the authority to reprimand the PC or tell him what to do. That authority rests with the Cobourg Police Services Board who are appointed, not elected.

Two Cobourg Council members and one resident are appointed by Council. Two (residents??) are appointed by the Attorney general (political patronage by the local MPP). In theory Council should have control, or at least significant influence. But Cobourg being Cobourg, it doesn’t seem to work that way.

A way to change this:
-public pressure on the two Council members and the local MPP.
-remember them at election time.
-pressure the resident appointee to be a “Team Cobourg” player.
-pressure Council to appoint “Team Cobourg” players

Last edited 29 days ago by Bryan
VeeTee
Reply to  Bryan
29 days ago

Thank you Bryan for your information.

So essentially you are saying that the Police Services Board and the two councillors, who we know sympathize with the encampment, have control of the Cobourg Police Force, And the Mayor is obviously out voted. So no druggies will be arrested, and crime will carry on.

Rational
Reply to  VeeTee
29 days ago

Kind of disappointing and sad. The Mayor and Council, who say vote for me – we will be your voice, have no purpose/authority. Why do we need them?

It would seem they run for these post to supplement their pension income or small business income.

Jade
Reply to  VeeTee
27 days ago

Pretty much correct

Dave
Reply to  Bryan
29 days ago

I think you have some very good suggestions Bryan. Here still being a town perhaps there is the ability to have more say on governance of police services through the actions you have suggested.

However in looking at the Police Board in Toronto, not the recent one but going back years they have had people in charge with no police service background, influential people sitting with all kinds of politcal poppycock views. As does the Parole Board of Canada with citizen appointments with no experience in law enforcement.

A cousin wrote me tonight from the States stating how discouraged he is reading in regard to crime, the lessening of societal values and the growing storm of advocates – unelected but with plenty to say holding power over so many aspects of law enforcement with so many politicians bowing to a fragment of society afraid of not being being elected or re-elected as the case may be. Time for the silent majority to speak out clearly out. I feel the same way as he does.

Jade
Reply to  VeeTee
27 days ago

Good for you ! So now we need residents to speak up to the proper people. Chief Mayor and the police service board. I can assure you.. I have done so. This crap needs to stop in town. And oh.. just wait until 310 opens up. It’s right smack in my area. I have enough trouble in my area now. I sure as hell wouldn’t think twice about protecting myself or property if I had to. Call the cops sure.. but all they would do is tell them to move along. I call cops knowing P all will be done. But.. my calls are logged and noted so if ever I need proof of nothing being done , I at least have my proof.
And I assure you. I will definitely laugh at the judge if it’s I that gets charged for protecting myself. Oh no.. we pay police to do the work they are supposed to , but it is ourselves that have to do the protecting

Thumb
Reply to  Jade
1 month ago

Good for you Jade. I’ve lived in Cobourg since 1960 and I’ve never seen such pussy footin around. I grew up without a father, I worked at any job I could get. Back then we didn’t have people helping us, we helped our selves. Some of these a-wholes don’t have a clue what it’s like to grow up with nothing. Back then I wasn’t looking for drugs or jumping on cars or looking for hand outs, I was working, which is what these encampment people should try. The only thing I will do to help these ” unfortunate ” people is to give them a ride out of town.

Jade
Reply to  Thumb
30 days ago

If Cobourg had the balls they would rent a bus and ship them all out. But hey.. that is against human rights. Human rights my butt. Uphold the damn laws and protect what we worked so hard for. Back in the days we did work for what we wanted.. your right. And today we obviously need to protect ourselves. No law today makes the criminal pay for destroying what we have. Your right.. handouts to them is the norm here. I wouldn’t give them 2 cents

rod
Reply to  Jade
30 days ago

There are more of us behind you then you think. Hopefully a large (peaceful) protest demonstration by homeowners can be organized in the near future. May I suggest a Golden Shovel be presented to Council as a token to help dig us out of this s**t.

Jade
Reply to  rod
30 days ago

Sounds good to me Rod. But if you think council will accept that golden shovel, we’ll we would be sadly mistaken. They would never have the guts to help dig us out. That’s all ready be proven yes ?
No one but the residents have a clear idea on what actually needs to be done. Not council not CPS not the justice system. We need to go back to the 80s law and actually do something about these misfits

rod
Reply to  Jade
29 days ago

By not accepting the shovel would be a media and public humiliation. A true sign of weakness for a decisive future re- election. Sadly shaming is the only way to go.

Dave
Reply to  Jade
30 days ago

I agree with your statements on the whole situation Jade except for one. It is safer in Toronto. It is not – I grew up there. After a shooting very near my residence, plus more just along the way in east end Toronto, another directly in my neighbourhood, a complex just across the street where the residents attended the store in their pyjamas and their building was a s***hole filled with bugs and fecal matter in the staircase, serious gangs in neighbourhoods all over the city, having my vehicle broken into and severely damaged along with other tenants, another tentant’s vehicle stolen and used in a smash and grab in our building that once housed King Clancy and today asks for rents exceeding $2000 as it is in a preferred area I decided to move. Driving home from friends in a once quiet neighbourhood after midnight heard the next day there was a shooting of another motorist on that route on the way home. And that is not the worst. Where the encampments are the people owning homes stated they were broken into, had addicts having sex on their properties, the fires with the propane tanks a regular issue. This has been going on for far too long here and everywhere. But no Toronto is not safer. You should see the night prowlers and day prowlers picked up on security cameras of others I still know there.

Jade
Reply to  Dave
30 days ago

Dave I lived in Toronto for 21 years. Absolutely you are right in that crime is rampant there. But the difference is .. the law actually did something there. Made arrest and the crooks were at least held accountable to some degree. Here ? Oh please.. they do nothing. Trust me.. I pretty much know the dispatch know my name by heart as I call all the damn time. And I am present when they do decide to come. They say move along LOL. We are told to call why ? It’s a joke. All you get from cops is.. they will only be out the next day so why bother. Ya ok

Concerned Cobourg Resident
Reply to  Jade
30 days ago

True!

It’s because all these politicians have signed onto the DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) agenda, which means now people that have worked hard for everything they have are forced by taxation to give to the homeless and every other useless social program in the name of equity.

It seems equality of outcome trumps equality of opportunity these days…..

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Concerned Cobourg Resident
30 days ago

The proper abbreviation for Diversity, Inclusion and Equity — DIE — better reflects the impacts on most Canadians.

Nikki
Reply to  Concerned Cobourg Resident
30 days ago

Exactly! The DEI is insidious. Look into Private Public Partnerships. Governments on every level are selling us all out. Pushing back against our Municipal governments is the best chance we have at change on a local level. Dealing with provincial or federal is pointless.

Aleta
Reply to  Jade
29 days ago

I am an older single woman living on King St. I understand your sentiment, but how exactly would I defend myself or my property?

Rob
Reply to  Aleta
29 days ago

Last year I mentioned that it will only be a matter of time before a Brokeside encamper who is looking to do harm, wanders into a yard, breaks into a shed or enters a residence of someone who is awake and capable of (rightfully) defending their property, their family or themselves…I believe it isn’t a matter of if, it is only a matter of when. It will be very unfortunately but predictable.

James Bisson
1 month ago

When politicians publicly state IN SESSION that government funding amounts come from Santa Clause, magically appear or are gifts, it’s a slap in the face of every taxpayer in the province. The funds came from municipal taxes, levies, fees, tickets, parking, HST, provincial tax, federal tax, that WE paid out of pocket. The County has committed a mind boggling $5 million in capital to 310 without producing a single financial report on what the money is being used for, only that it will be spent! That’s not counting ongoing program costs.
How can they possibly spend more in renovations that the cost of the building? They must have done an inspection before paying $2.3 mil? Who’s the seller? At $5 mil for 35 beds averages $148k per bed?!!! And they’re concerned about decor while we live under siege??
I’ve never seen such blatant mismanagement of public funds and tone deafness in my life. Usually they do it behind our backs then get caught. They’re not even trying to hide it anymore! THEY CAN SEND MY TAX BILL TO THE NORTH POLE VIA UNICORN!

Downtowner
Reply to  James Bisson
1 month ago

Absolutely James, l am sure if a more thoughtful approach had been used to address the homeless, we wouldn’t have been here. $5 million could have been put into funded treatment. Expanding low barrier shelter is ,as you and l have said, insane, repeating the same actions expecting a different result. Five years with increased crime,destruction of communities and people deepening addiction..deplorable results for this application .

Ken Strauss
Reply to  James Bisson
1 month ago

James, you under-estimate the ability of Northumberland County staff to waste our money. The new Golden Plough has only 151 beds but the recent cost overrun estimate is for over $120M or almost $1M per bed. Each BED will cost more than most Cobourg HOUSES!

small town Ontario
Reply to  James Bisson
1 month ago

Northumberland County Councilors are doing what they believe to be their job, IMO, keeping Northumberland County Social Service Staff, and the CAO happy.
Watch the video of the NC council meeting. It is evident who is leading the discussion (staff) and this is the first time council is hearing about the funding, so they ask a few questions then vote yes. Staff are so sure this will happen, they own it.
All with the seal of approval from the Conservative Provincial Government, and our Conservative MPP.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Any response /plans from the Federal government re sorting this out of control disaster for the country.?
It appears to be one problem that Ottawa has chosen to stay out of and instead concentrate on those of the world.
The fact that this issue is (as well as others) a Provincial country wide problem ,appears not crucial enough to activate the Emergency Act that was “so necessary” in one province during the Trucker’s Convoy issue..

Dave
Reply to  small town Ontario
30 days ago

So you feel a more socialist provincial government such as the NDP is a better choice sto? Would you prefer the Liberals for as provincial? They are also socialist in their leanings. What is your choice of provincial government to correct this? I would very much like to know. My choice is to boot out the Federal Liberals who are making the laws that enable all this and tie the hands of everyone else.

Rational
Reply to  James Bisson
1 month ago

James – I agree the cost is unjustified.

310 previously housed seniors, and was acceptable, so why are renovations to this extent necessary for a drop in overnight homeless centre? Is it empire building?

Making these decisions are County unelected officials as they were only elected or acclaimed for their own small rural community of say 6,000 residents or so – not for Northumberland County. Hardly a mandate to make decisions for the County or other Municipalities.

Last edited 1 month ago by Rational
Downtowner
Reply to  Rational
30 days ago

This is how the Federal Liberals hand out money. Wouldn’t a surplus in any portfolio be better spent on the deficit? WAY out in left field to rain down such a large amount with the stipulation it gets put to use quickly on the chosen application, the only directive. Little follow up..where there should be many questions.,.might as well buy more tents, money over spent on one poorly thought out endeavour that has created unnecessary hostility and heart break in our Town.

Pamela Jackson
1 month ago

Does anyone remember the name Angus Reid? There was a Mayor with balls, he would never have allowed the town to get into this situation. He was fearless, said it like it was and was a no nonsense leader in every way. Boy did he get things done. Later I was fortunate to serve two terms on Council when Peter Delanty was Mayor and there again, he was a “leader”. He stood for no nonsense, took his role as Mayor very seriously, never using the role as a “poster boy” but as a citizen who understood what good governance really meant. Cobourg needs men and women, like this for the next election.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Pamela Jackson
1 month ago

“Angus Reid”? He does polls. Perhaps you mean our former Mayor: Major Angus Vaughan Read?

Pamela Mary Jackson
Reply to  Ken Strauss
1 month ago

Thank you for the correction. Never knew the “Vaughan” part of his name. Worked closely with him in his political campaign and always admired his forceful “take no prisoners” approach. Was one of his many admirers and still wish there were a few more like him in public life.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Pamela Jackson
1 month ago

Don’t forget that Delanty chose Tourism over Industry
and we see how that’s worked out .

Ronnie
1 month ago

I saw a list of the 100 most liveable towns in Canada but Cobourg was not mentioned – why not?

Aleta
Reply to  Ronnie
1 month ago

This would probably help to explain why … we made it on the news again. https://globalnews.ca/video/10360654/consultation-still-needed-on-cobourg-division-street-shelter-mpp/

Jade
Reply to  Aleta
1 month ago

Oh lovely.. now more homeless will head this way

Cobourger
1 month ago

Seems to me that that all the negative commenters condemning: the addicts, the homeless, the council, the county, the province, and the feds for not solving the”problem” lack any sort of positive or constructive solutions beyond get-out-of-town. If you have no ideas or nothing to offer but bi*ching, don’t expect others to come up with a magic bullet to make it all go away.

Tucker
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

And do you have a solution?

Mervin
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

Very simple solution if you’re willing to listen. Allocate resources equally throughout Northumberland County as to avoid creating a large hub in one community.

Give me a break
Reply to  Mervin
1 month ago

That will never happen ….. NIMT (Not In My Town) ….. the current Hub is One square Block around Division and Chapel ….. allocating resources across the County would be too much for the County and Executives to handle …… maybe our MPP stipulates that these monies should help establish other hubs but don’t hold your breath …

Mervin
Reply to  Give me a break
1 month ago

We could empower the police and courts, rather than embolden drug dealers and repeat offenders.

rod
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

If you reside in or near the encampment lets hear about YOUR positive constructive ideas, if you have none your always welcome to join the bi*chers.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  rod
30 days ago

I wonder if the increasing For Sale signs popping up around town are an indicator of constructive ideas before house values tank .

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

A few suggestions, Cobourger:

Zero tolerance enforcement of existing laws and bylaws relating to petty crimes, threatening, littering, public consumption, loitering, trespass, etc.Enforce Section 177 of the Criminal Code which addresses the crime of trespassing at night.Under Canadian criminal law, individuals who facilitate or assist in the execution of a crime are treated as culpable as the person who physically carries out the act. This should be applicable to the enablers who fund tents and supplies for trespassers.Petition your Councillors to prohibit “safe” injection sites and shantytowns near Cobourg.Keep fighting allowing a low barrier facility at 310 DivisionDon’t re-elect those who are attempting to destroy Canada.

Last edited 1 month ago by Ken Strauss
Downtowner
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

I have made many suggestions toward reallocation of funds toward medical intervention and treatment for the drug addiction and mental health problems….the homeless issue could be eased , somewhat, at 310 Division. Not all comments are bitching, but many like several of mine express frustration at the lack of insight into the issue by County and Province by continuing to throw money into housing first and grouped together shelter. This invites negative contamination for the truly homeless, l have enough issue on the street with drug addicts and all that they bring with them, I would not expect anyone to cohabitate with anyone in that life, why does the Government outreach?

Mervin
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

Did you want to hear positive or constructive solutions, or were you just interested in insulting people whose views differ from yours? There is nothing more constructive or positive than getting people off the streets and off drugs. It doesn’t take a magic bullet to know what currently isn’t working. Even the most progressive cities in North America are starting to change course (Oregon has re-criminalized drugs, mayor of New York- Eric Adams is clearing encampments, Gavin Newsom is clearing encampments in California) People are waking up. I understand that you view your approach as more caring. But this type of caring is short sighted. It prioritizes short-term emotional comfort over long-term outcomes. Over truth, reality, flourishing, everything. It feels good, you may even appear to do good, but long term there are so many examples of how poorly this ends. If new data shows that my thought process was flawed, I would attempt to acknowledge my shortcomings and change course. My identity is not interwoven with my ideas. Meaning.. I would like to believe my ideas will evolve when provided new information. Are you honest enough to attempt to do the same?

James Bisson
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

Elected officials, qualified civil servants, millions in financial resources, law enforcement, health care professionals, and legislative powers. THEY are responsible and are failing and are ignoring us on top of all that. We have assaults, crime, open drug use, and an open air drug encampment near 3 schools….and you think the public is the problem? It’s their job!!!

small town Ontario
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

After YEARS AND YEARS of this crap in our town, positive has long since been buried and the weeds are growing rapidly.

Thumb
Reply to  Cobourger
1 month ago

I’ve have an idea, get a bus and ” make it all go away ” and you can drive it.

NAI
Reply to  Cobourger
29 days ago

There are many suggestions. It’s just that these suggestions fall short of what you would like to read. I continue to advocate for returning to more aggressive law enforcement, and greater deterrence through incarceration, for those who continue to thumb their nose at the laws. For those who WANT help, absolutely have them avail themselves to support. But the issue now is support is being given to those who don’t want to improve their situation.

Yes, it is b*itching. Once again, this weekend, I came across needles in a **** park that my children wanted to play in. Will you ***** pay for HIV treatments should my children get stuck? Will YOU pay and help me look after my children when they get a form of Hep????

The time of helping is over. The time to act is now. I’ve had it up to here with the inability to just let my children play in a park without me worrying about their safety.

Cathy
1 month ago

I’m not sure why Mandy Martin is patting herself on the back. Her track record on housing starts for affordable/GTI housing has been abysmal. I do hope with the change in leadership will help alleviate this issue for residents of Cobourg and Northumberland County. It is past time for members of Northumberland County council to pony up and take some responsibility as well. There’s a huge difference between someone who is working, homeless, and can’t afford the high cost of rent in this area. They need to be separated from the true tweakers.
James Brisson stated in his presentation that over 200 women and children were turned away from cornerstone last year due to no space available. Where did these folks go? I understand chief Vandergraff and CPS officer’s frustrations of catch and release. However, they still have a job to serve and protect fellow citizens. Port Hope police services doesn’t put up with the crap Cobourg ignores.

Rational
Reply to  Cathy
1 month ago

I am curious what are the qualifications/experience/check points required to make decisions such as those that negatively impact an entire municipality of 20,000 plus? Should these decisions not be by public referendum?

Last edited 1 month ago by Rational
Cathy
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

Which begs the question again, can Cobourg afford to go alone and separate from the county? In the very least, there needs to be a lot more transparency from Northumberland county council members.

Aleta
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

Absolutely there should be a referendum. Re: qualifications, the Port Hope mayor is very well qualified for her position and it shows. IMO all the others not so much.

Leweez
1 month ago

Well, I guess Northumberland County just announced where the next encampment is going to be.
It will be located on the newly purchased land that Northumberland County just purchased.
Get ready west end residents, lock your doors and get your security cameras ready, they are coming.
I guess Northumberland County felt that they should share the experience of having an encampment in your backyard.
Good luck.

Small town lover
Reply to  Leweez
1 month ago

I read the land will be used to build low income housing not a homeless encampment. Where did you get your information?

Gerry
Reply to  Small town lover
1 month ago

I hope they mean it tongue in cheek, but who knows today anymore.

Leweez
Reply to  Small town lover
1 month ago

When and if the encampment gets kicked off the Brookside property, they will move to this new property, that is my guess.
they won’t be asking for permission, they will just move in.
it will be at least 5 years before you see a low income house built on that property

Tucker
Reply to  Leweez
1 month ago

Did you actually go and see where this land is? I did and at a quick glance driving by, I don’t think there’s any space to pitch a tent right now. Covered in huge trees and bushes.

Leweez
Reply to  Tucker
1 month ago

Yes, I have been by it, they will be in there.
hmmm, wonder why they have it fenced off?

Rational
Reply to  Tucker
1 month ago

It goes down to Kerr St.. From Kerr up to Burwash it is pretty open. Also some the one-off encampments the Pete Fisher has put up are in among forested areas. The campers don’t care. They have had luxury on the Brookside property.

Tucker
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

Yes, I see now on “google earth” the opening at 699 Westwood, does show a fairly open field. I’m presuming the “entrance or driveway” will be between those two homes on Westwood. Pity.

curious in cobourg
Reply to  Leweez
1 month ago

Where is the information/speculation about this piece of land the County has apparently purchased for low income housing. If you can’t be specific then just don’t post this kind of b.s.

Leweez
Reply to  curious in cobourg
1 month ago

Read my post again, it is my opinion

Rational
Reply to  curious in cobourg
1 month ago

Actually go to the Cobourg Blog – the one you just posted on. It’s under Breaking News – Mar 15.

Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
Reply to  curious in cobourg
1 month ago

One can find the properties on google maps as the property addresses are listed on the County of Northumberland website.

Sandpiper
1 month ago

We have still not had any comments or Guidance from the Police Dept . on how they will
enforce the Law around this 310 building and all the new County Needy residents likely moving to Cobourg
Not only that But I would really like to hear from the Town / Mayor / By Law & Police
as to how they intend to enforce their new Strong Licencing program .
How are they are going to handle this place when its Occupied by residents / tenants
what ever . Or how and who will be responsible should the Transition House owner operators walk away. This was perceived , realized by the County I am certain That’s when and why they washed their hands of liability
after they purchased this property , So they rolled it over to a Shell operating Co . like Transition House . Surely someone at the Town has considered all aspects of this
Delema before allowing it to OPEN .
I am aware of the Provincial Strength and Policy surrounding Tenants , Housing and the Landlord and Tenant Act are Council . What will we be stuck with when this goes Up in Smoke .
This is like a Cheech & Chong Movie isn’t it
The County Should be completely and Solley Responsible and Liable for this operation
and the Damages to the Neighbourhood and Town up to and including Property Value protection
and increased Insurance Costs Or at least Guarantors and Removal of the Residents if and when the Licencing agreement is enforced by the Town Thats if it can be enforced ??
and by who ????

Kathleen
1 month ago

This “grant” money that wasn’t even applied for is nothing but P.R. for the P.C.’s – that IMO will backfire on them. To all the enablers and advocates, Piccini hopes to look magnanimous. But to others, he has lost their vote.

In any case, this money is like putting Lipstick on a Pig. And it will be squandered and wasted and 310 will look like 3rd World destruction in 5 years or less.

Why hasn’t ANY Government agency come out and said what we all know to be true….that ‘Homelessness’ and ‘Addicts that are Un-housed’, are two completely different entities that have nothing in common with each other, and do not/should not live under the same roof. Why? Because it’s cheaper to lump them all in together and throw some lipstick money at the problem, rather than building Government Funded Rehab Facilities.

ALL Governments should start throwing their money into Stigmatizing Drug Addiction and Promoting Education! End rant.

Give me a break
Reply to  Kathleen
1 month ago

Wonder where our MPP lives …… definitely not in Cobourg

LivesinCobourg
Reply to  Kathleen
30 days ago

Yes! Homeless people and drug addicts are two completely different groups.

Rational
1 month ago

IMO, Mr. Cleveland, and Councellors you now need to step up to protect and carry out the position of the residents of Cobourg on 310 Division and that it being “High” barrier and NOT “Low” barrier. Work together on this and say NO to further progress until agreement on “High” barrier is reached. Use the legal system if needed.

It certainly appears as if 310 Division was orchestrated between the County and Province with the latest announcement of renovation funding down to the last cent. The Christmas gift story?? – it is an insult to Cobourg residents. This outcome has been in the works for several months when you think about how bureaucracy works.

And the County says no guarantee the Encampment will be disbanded.. So what has Cobourg accomplished over the past 9 months? Nothing and the situation is worse.And now the County has purchased 14 acres at Westwood and Burwash for “Affordable” housing. The way the County has operated on 310 Division “Affordable” could mean for any purpose – watch as future releases come out.

Mr. Cleveland stand up and be counted for. You and the Councellors should state/hold a press conference, now and on the record, where you stand on this matter. Resident’s of Cobourg are entitled to know – as we pay the bills and for voting purposes.

Last edited 1 month ago by Rational
Tucker
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

Where exactly on Burwash and Westwood is there vacant land?

Rational
Reply to  Tucker
1 month ago

I wondered that too – but it looks like to the West of Westwood north of Kerr. Ewing would be the other north – south street on the far side.

Informed
Reply to  Tucker
1 month ago

Wait a week and look for tents then you will know.

small town Ontario
Reply to  Informed
1 month ago

Encampment Phase II

Dave Chomitz
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

The property is the woods on the south end of Park on Carlisle St. When subdivisions are developed there are requirements for lands to be set aside for schools and parks. This block was both. There is wide frontage at the south, but also access off Westwood on what appear as vacant lots. But they are for roads.

Rational
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

Just to add to the School Board Land (Westwood/Burwash) (“SBL”) purchase. This point is relevant to the current topic on 310 Division (310) and where will the encampment go.

Could it be the SBL purchase is part of the Province’s agreement for the 310 funding transaction i.e. the Province funds $2.47K for renovations, if the County purchases the SBL for the Encampment to relocate too. This resolves the Province’s Brookside problem, making for a clean sale. Given how the 310 transaction evolved in staged press releases this may not be that far fetched.

Today I drove by the SBL. It has recently been totally fenced off with new 6 foot fencing, no trespassing/video surveillance signage and signage PPE required when on property.

Where was the Mayor and Council on this transaction? Did they even know? Were the two streets of house/residents (say 50 houses) that back onto the property informed? Is this property zoned for “Affordable” house as it was initially for a school? What will happen to their house prices?

It all goes to trust and transparency. Tough to get trust back when you loose it.

Cobourg needs strong Leadership who are prepared to work together for the better of residents.

Who will step up?

Last edited 1 month ago by Rational
Eastender
1 month ago

Reading this blog, and seeing recent images (in local news) of people sleeping
in a bank lobby makes me understand clearly that we live in a lawless, leaderless community acting as though none of the lawlessness and leadership vacuum matters, Our members of council don’t care. Our police services (more appropriately-lack of services) don’t care. And our local businesses don’t care. Remember when our rudderless CPS ballyhooed “street patrols”? What happened to that? I often think of the words from a MAGA-like former Mayor who said, and I paraphrase, if you don’t like the way things work in Cobourg, move. Time to call the realtor.

Just a thought
Reply to  Eastender
1 month ago

It wasn’t a former Mayor who said that. It was our current one. It was more around if you couldn’t afford it here, you should move. Similar sentiment, though. I sincerely hope people’s memories are working properly when the next election demands our participation.

Gerry
Reply to  Just a thought
1 month ago

Our place went on the market three weeks ago; I just hope the current situation and our downtown location don’t cause any delays in selling while we can.

Downtowner
Reply to  Gerry
1 month ago

Selling not an option for many…we have lost significant property value due to the dismissal of County as to our importance compared with their stellar work toward shelter space here in the troubled triangle.How dare we question their good work…come on over any day and watch the parade of drug addicts to James and John as they stubble along .leaving the pizza boxes,food containers coffee cups from T. H….or any night with the same destination.starting point the warming hub.littering happily on route..Cannot possibly improve with a super shelter. But with every encounter at Transition House’s door counted as a person aided, but not accommodated……all good to pad numbers when time to apply for funding.

Doug
1 month ago

NO LEVEL of GOVERNMENT HAS STOOD UP TO DEAL WITH THE HOMELESS including OUR terrible ENCAMPMENT AT BROOKSIDE.
I taught High School at Brookside. All levels of Police were involved with our Young Offenders, that included the Town Police who now claim it is not local, just Provincial jurisdiction. That excuse lets them ignore all issues and problems. The OPP doesn’t cover municipal areas – and you can be sure they will never drive by Brookside. They can step into this issue, if they wanted to. All levels of Police were at Brookside when I was working there.
The Town of Cobourg ANNOUNCED that Brookside was a Provincial responsibility, so there is nothing they can do. That for sure is a lie. Brookside is part of the TOWN OF COBOURG and as such they have full responsibility for that property. The County of Northumberland just said that Brookside is “out of their jurisdiction. That also is a lie. It is part of our county and YES, they are responsible for that property as well ! Doug Ford has never in his life heard about a Homeless problem in Ontario. He has asked his developer friends and they told him not to worry. Homeless issues are totally a Provincial responsibility and Ford could develop a clear response to this issue at any time.

So that only leaves us and all John Draper’s friends left to do something. What can we do.?
Not much ! But we can certainly start by voting against ALL the do nothing governments that we now have.

In the 1920s we had a Depression that the Canadian government just looked away from. It took a World War to clean that problem up. No gov’t much cared and unfortunately it took all the building of weapons and employment of soldiers to straighten out our economy. After WWII a lot of soldiers came home to unemployment. The Federal government jumped up and hired all soldiers by creating Door to Door Mail Delivery and a few other programs. Employment soared and so did Canada’s economy. We need a government – at some level – with a vision !!!

We are now developing a larger and larger homeless problem and NO government even looks at this problem. How low will Canada’s economy and ‘not’ shared wealth have to sink before anything is done. Will we stoop to vigilante gang warfare? It’s possible. We’ve already locked up everything at our Condo building – lock your house and back yards ! Just sayin’ Doug

cornbread
1 month ago

The province did not earn this money…they took it in the form of taxes from companies and individuals.

Concerned Cobourg Resident
1 month ago

The other solution would be to tell them to pack up and leave, your not welcome here. There is no money for you.

Cost to taxpayers, $0

But of course…the politicians have to justify their existence with these endless useless social programs. Sickening.

Informed
1 month ago

Has anyone checked to see what colour that some of the campers would like the walls to make it more attractive?My God.

Last edited 1 month ago by Informed
rod
Reply to  Informed
1 month ago

Most likely a large Mural of green cannabis and a smoking middle finger.With the caption in yellow “Welcome to Cobourg the Feeling Good Town”

Informed
Reply to  rod
1 month ago

Sadley the mural would more likely be comprised of Heroin, Fentanyl , meth and crack. Weed doesn’t cut it anymore for most.

Downtowner
Reply to  Informed
1 month ago

Exactly, sadly,,….the whole situation is sad..so hopeful the Town’s bylaw remains strong.

rod
Reply to  Downtowner
1 month ago

bylaws will remain strong, enforcement will remain weak as usual

Aleta
Reply to  rod
1 month ago

Exactly no use in having bylaws when no one is enforcing them. I submitted a complaint to Bylaw Dept. over one month ago re: property standards and zoning. Haven’t heard a peep from them, and this was an easy case to solve. Does anyone really believe that the officers will even attempt to enforce such a bylaw? The Mayor and councilors are up against the wall, so are trying to make it look like they are doing something by passing a new bylaw which won’t be worth the paper it is written on.

Gerry
Reply to  Downtowner
1 month ago

By-laws are only strong if they are enforced. Sadly, that is lacking in Cobourg, where politicians at all levels dance, obfuscate, and hope we have short memories.

Downtowner
Reply to  rod
1 month ago

And they will fly the pirate flag out front

Downtowner
Reply to  Informed
1 month ago

And central air to come l’m sure…the air conditioners poking from windows will be not do..

Downtowner
Reply to  Downtowner
1 month ago

Sorry to be so negative, this whole mess makes me so angry.Especially when the County themselves feels this will not address the campers so why is it necessary to be low barrier? Help those who need a roof….and get the drug addicts medical help…stop stalling …put the monies to positive use!!!

small town Ontario
Reply to  Downtowner
1 month ago

I am angry as well. Northumberland County, and the Town of Cobourg have listened….but never addressed or acted on any of the residents concerns. Our safety, health, stress, or financial repercussions.
They just continued to move forward with their own plans. I will be surprised if the Licensing by-law will be any part of this process.
Now the final straw, the Conservative Provincial Government validates the shelters policies and through their Homelessness Prevention Program and funds 2.4 million to modernize 310 plus, plus, dollars.
I cannot in all good conscious vote for a Conservative MPP who, in my opinion, lacks compassion for the real victims of Cobourg, who have lived and still live close to TH and the drug houses.
I cannot in all good conscious vote for a Conservative MP who stands on the sidelines and for the most part remains silent except for a few meaningless platitudes.
The polls seem to suggest that Canadians will have a Conservative Leader in the next election, and I certainly hope that is true, but I cannot cast my vote for a Conservative in this County. Sadly, TH 310 will open, and the encampment will probably still be there, and our many problems will continue.
A sign on the highway should read Welcome to Cobourg, enter at your own risk.

Dave
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Sadly you will assist the continuation of the Liberal government and you will rely on others to ensure a new government is elected. With a Liberal representative surely you realize they will not be pushing for any changes in the communities they represent.
Our current rep was not invited to take part in the earlier meetings held by the town or county, I wrote his office receiving a reply, and to my understanding unlike Piccini who has been unfairly criticized as well has provided funding and been invited to meetings. If not the Liberals your other choice would be for a government that has stood right behind them against the Conservatives instead of selecting to bring this country back to restart from all the insane polices that have come in over these past years.

Resident
Reply to  Dave
1 month ago

Right because the conservatives have really helped the situation, Ford was the one cancelled rent control, Picinni is just a photo opp guy, I’m pretty sure he’s just sat on his hands the entire year.

Trudeau not much better. Who’s actually made the most tangible improvement in this province so far? Olivia Chow. Absolutely stoppable improvements for Toronto so far, real change, gets things done, this is what we need here. NDP is who is getting my next vote.

Last edited 1 month ago by Resident
Dave
Reply to  Resident
1 month ago

I was talking Federal. Take a look at YouTube Rsident and read the papers. Mr. Singh is a strong supporter of Liberal Bills, social assistance of all forms over ensuring a good economy and lastly vast immigration without the supports needed – look around, the price of homes, rents – many homeless that are not in the addict category – many of whom are seniors that worked all their lives.

small town Ontario
Reply to  Dave
1 month ago

Dave I understand the politics of the situation. There is a lot of taxpayer funded money in cash dollars and real estate moving around, I need to understand the working of this Charity

https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/hacc/srch/pub/t3010/v26/t3010Schdl6_dsplyovrvw

small town Ontario
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago
small town Ontario
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

2023 Registered charity information return for TRANSITION HOUSE COALITION OF NORTHUMBERLAND

Dave
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Well it is a Federal Government of Canada website – not working it says – just like their programs and policies! What else is there to say?

small town Ontario
Reply to  Dave
1 month ago

I agree. This MP is now in his second term serving Northumberland Peterborough South. I understand his party is not governing at the moment but what has he accomplished for Northumberland? I understand that politicians need to stay in their lanes, BUT this issue is serious and needs the attention of ALL our elected representatives. So their lanes have to merge together to fully support law abiding hard working taxpaying residents of Cobourg. Maybe the only message he will understand will be if the votes for him decrease and then he will get the message that the MP position is not a free ride, with a $300,000.00 plus paycheck.
If he can help people fill out a passport application, he can research Transition House Coalition of Northumberland and hold a meeting with residents. Explain financials of this charity. Does he agree with their policies? Does he think Cobourg residents have real concerns, and does he know the history of 10 Chapel St?
MPP Piccini has many accomplishments but I can’t see a balance with the $2.4 funding for the TH-310 Shelter, and the residents and business owners. He really disappointed me with this one.

Dave
Reply to  small town Ontario
30 days ago

Well if you vote for Bonnie Crombie, new Liberal provincial party leader keep in mind she raised taxes in her terms as mayor of Mississauga in a city well set up by her predecessor Hazel McCallium. NDP you can also expect to dig deeper as they love social programs.
I would have liked to see our Federal rep here more but I did attend the meeting he held here mainly for senior issues here in Cobourg and areas of his riding. Apparently his office was not invited by the local government to participate which I mentioned in another reply but did attend when issued a invite by MPP Picinni. Maybe he should have suprised the Council here and just barged in uninvited.

Give me a break
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Our MPP is to busy with selfies and photo ops ……. We the tax payers are indirectly footing the $2.4 million …… basic drop and run political strategy

Dave
Reply to  Give me a break
1 month ago

Under the current Federal laws there is not much else that can be done. I would like to see Federally funded rehabs as this is country wide, changes to their knee capping Bills that strongly ensure the police and courts see the laws are upheld instead of stating to walk around issues. Political strength in all categories against law breaking enabled by Federal changes. If you support the current Federal government or the NDP you are part of the problem.
Here I see the County gleefully congratulating themselves, ridding themselves of this problem and dumping it on Cobourg as no one knows what to else to do under the current Federal regime. NIMBY.

Aleta
Reply to  Downtowner
1 month ago

You don’t need to apologize for being negative–anyone who is looking at this situation realistically is negative, scared, frustrated, angry, etc. And the politicians just increase all of the negative emotions … with their deer in the headlights passivity.

Downtowner
Reply to  Aleta
1 month ago

Not mention Transition House’s is as unaccountable as it’s clients.and for the life of me l do not understand when this Coalition cannot keep a board of directors for any length of time that the County has such confidence in them to continue as the operating body for this shelter of any barrier level. As Dave says above the County is gleefully congratulating themselves as they accept money and dump the problem on Cobourg. Currying favour of the higher levels of Government as the shiny example they are. ….NOT

Downtowner
1 month ago

Seems to me a large amount of money to push an agenda on a community not willing to be further eroded by this unsuccessful approach to housing that Transition House has fostered thus far ….unless it becomes dedicated to recovery and committed residency by those willing to make positive change in their lives and a high barrier. The proposed 24 hour hub spells disaster for the downtown.Additonally no relief from the encampment….S O S.

rod
Reply to  Downtowner
1 month ago

Trump not the only one that uses HUSH MONEY

John Mead
Reply to  Downtowner
1 month ago

Why did the ownersof 310 Division put up theplace forsale in the firstst place? Because the newProvincial requirements made itunprofitable and they would not fund a new investment. So who makes that ne investment .what a surprise Why the Provincial Govt
So heres over $2M+ for a start they found lying around unused so lets further chaos by funding what the People of Cobourg are fighting so hard to avoid. A low entry house full of unfortunatly self inflicted addicts who have liilte control over their actions being run by a group of directors that condone these actions but do not responsibility
Our recent By law holding those directors resposible has stopped the development in its tracks. Cobourg will accept 310 Division as a high barrier housing situation for deserving cases of homelessenees cauced through poverty . But TH has and is a disater and its expansion in this Town is tobe avoided at all costs Stand firm LC and Council ,you bylaw is just the wedge we all need

Downtowner
Reply to  John Mead
1 month ago

I am truly hoping and praying you are correct.lf the county makes 310 high barrier it’s a win. win County may still save face because homeless people, possibly women and children and seniors needing a stop over to permanent affordable housing will be accommodated and the “troubled triangle ” will be interrupted…..now could the drug trafficking that fuels the night and day walkabouts of drug fogged people in this area’s trap house get addressed and safety may return to the downtown