With a goal of ultimately approving a budget before the start of the budget year, the first step is to ask citizens what they want. At the recent Council meeting, a timetable was approved (full details in special Cobourg internet page – see Resources below) and today (August 1), the first item has been implemented – an online survey. The survey starts by asking demographic information (how long have you lived in Cobourg, age, income, etc.) then moves to the importance of various issues. But we are told that if current services are maintained, the budget must go up by the amount of inflation (3%) or services must be cut. So the next set of questions asks which services should have the same or more funding.
The survey then asks for suggestions to align with Strategic plan goals. It is here that you can enter text outlining suggestions – you could even dispute that the Strategic plan goals are what we want.
The second last question is:
Communities across Ontario, including the Town of Cobourg face the ongoing task of replacing aging infrastructure. Would you be willing to pay an additional, dedicated tax levy if you knew these funds would only be drawn upon for infrastructure upgrades?
Note: The idea of the dedicated tax levy is to protect your annual tax rate from larger than average increases when these major projects arise.
I note that the county does this – they have a fixed annual 1% levy for infrastructure.
Finally, the survey asks
Do you have recommendations on how we can improve this survey in the future?
As usual, the “people listening” are listed. In this case, it’s the Mayor and all councillors as well as CAO Tracy Vaughan and Treasurer Adam Giddings.
A new idea this year is a series of “budget information sessions” where each Councillor will be available for 2 hours on specific dates to listen to citizen input. The schedule is included on the Cobourg Internet page (see below). If you want to participate, you are asked to “book an appointment” and “please email Laura Howard at [email protected] or call 905-372-4301 x 4305.”
Resources
- Online Survey on Town Web site
- Schedule for 2025 budget – on Cobourg Internet
- Download Strategic plan – on Cobourg Blog
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The answer to the second last question should be NO – full stop. Suggesting a dedicated tax for infrastructure repairs suggests poor fiscal stewardship and financial mismanagement but thank you for the question.
I would like to propose a question back to Council, private organizations across the province are experiencing revenue reductions, increased costs, inflationary pressures, market uncertainty and are being forced to make difficult staffing and financial decisions, what staff reductions should the Town of Cobourg make to support funding infrastructure repairs?
Reduce staff to meet the 3% inflationary uptick – you inflated the size of municipal government in Cobourg by adding 18 new positions and had the largest tax increase in 30 years. Stop coming to the well, because it is dry.
They do not need to reduce services, this is a governmental scare tactic.
It is premature to consider a new tax levy to pre-fund undetermined Infrastructure Costs, given the current inflationary pressures and that the 2024 Property Taxes increased 12-13% before the Storm Water manipulation.
What should be provided by Leadership/Staff to the Taxpayers on this issue now is a profile on what Infrastructure Projects are envisioned over the next say 5 and 10 year, estimated costs and timelines. Once this is known then perhaps the need for a “pre-fund” could be reopened.
The Stormwater budget was artificially inflated. Replacement of expensive street sweeper & vactor trucks on a 10 year basis is rich. Same sewer CCTV budget even after all the piping that last 50 years has associated imagery 10 years fresh or better is another example.
The town dictates to consultants what to conclude in their reports, as a way to launder pre-conclusions. Consultants comply for repeat business. A disinterested forensic audit is the only path to the truth.
Andre,
You wrote “The town dictates to consultants what to conclude in their reports, as a way to launder pre-conclusions.” Sadly, this may be closer to the truth than you think.
“Echo-sulting” has long been a factor in the consulting business. As you point out, client retention and repeat business is the objective.
You also wrote ” Replacement of expensive street sweeper & vactor trucks on a 10 year basis is rich” Anyone in construction/development will confirm this.
Somehow, the assets used in the private sector seem to have longer usable lives. Perhaps it’s because the assets are paid for with earned money rather than taxpayer’s money.
Some politicians and government bureaucrats are notable in their competency and desire for public service. They clearly stand out.
The rest are by definition failures: they seek power through government that escapes them in their personal and professional lives. These are the last people who merit power, yet they are the most power hungry.
Rational,
At last week’s council meeting, several comments were made regarding the up-coming budget cycle. LC asked that staff’s wish list should be prioritized. The 5-10 year asset repair/replace plan is what the asset management plan is all about. Condo’s and the private sector have been doing this for decades. Cobourg (municipal governments) couldn’t figure this out on their own (adopt private sector best practices) so the province had to mandate it.
Reply to A and B,
Well IMO Taxpayers need to be provided this information before being asked to anti up a reserve fund.
Cobourg Staff must have some idea of what infrastructure projects are and priority without going to an outside forensic audit. While they may not know the internal condition of drain pipes or other items they must know the age/ estimated length of life. We need to start here in order to be able to discuss future reserve funds.
If Staff cannot do this then that’s an issue that needs to be dealt with.
And any levy should remain part of Property Taxes so it is not buried like the Storm Water fee
Along with a independent review on how Council can reduce Overheads and Staffing at all depts.
This never ending hiring campaign has to stop and Productive measures need to be looked at
No Private Corporation could stay in business with the Spending and Management techniques and Policies presently in place . Just watching staff at work anywhere and in any dept .
will show you that there is clearly no management supervision in place or on site
Productivity per employee must be at an all time LOW
Town of Cobourg Policing Cost:
Police Total: $7,434,725 (6.3% higher than 2023)
It is the largest item on the Town of Cobourg Budget, the Police service has plans for a new building and rental of Building in Norham Industrial to use as a training facility.
Isnt it time to have an honest discussion about the current costs and future cost with a new facility being proposed.
The Town should be participating in the County Policing study to see if savings can be realized and burden to the tax payer lessened.
Agree. A Police Force for 20k population is a ridiculous waste of tax dollars. We have to pay for parking to afford our own CPS as well as our City staff who continue to receive raises and hire consultants, when other businesses are laying off workers, and wage freezing.
OPP HAVE IT ALL in place now including the training facility
why are we reinventing the wheel and also think we can surpass the training the OPP provide and rent it out as well to recover costs Not a Hope in H anyone will believe that one
Unbelievable that our Cobourg Police Service Board refuse to participate in a study that may find a more effective, efficient way to not only Police our town (Cobourg) but all of Northumberland County. I would suggest having 3 separate police forces for approx. 80k is not the best use of the taxpayer dollar.
How do these members continue to serve on the board and ignore the obvious. No accountability for anything!
I have said it before and say it again TIME FOR A CHANGE!
Obviously They can’t participate in something that will cause their Elimination
As a board made up of residents and councilors they should be looking at running the most cost effective and cost efficient service. There will always be a police service board regardless on who (OPP, Cobourg Police , Port Hope Police etc etc..) provides the service.
So if they the Board are not looking for the Most cost effective method of running a service and spending Tax $$ in the most efficient and responsible way. Then Why isn’t anyone calling on Municipal Affairs and having an inquiry done . I know that Directors of Condo Boards and Corporations
have the same responsibilities and obligations and are placed their by a Vote not because they have an interest of one sort or another and Volunteer .
May be the Members of this Board have been aligned with the Police Dept for far to long and have forgotten their Civic Duty .
Exactly!
Get rid of the encampment and I may be willing to pay a levy.
A small but symbolic start would be to discontinue funding of the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion position. What a colossal waste of municipal tax dollars. Managers are already required to follow the various human rights, labour and building codes. It’s redundant.
It’s not redundant, it’s racism in the form of positive discrimination.
“Finally, the survey asks
Do you have recommendations on how we can improve this survey in the future?”
I hope that all of you did, as I did, pointed out the fact that nowhere on the survey is a box for the elimination of the service. Just proves to me that the Empire-Builders have no interest in discussing elimination of services and the Empire will get bigger even if everybody says no to more funding on each question.
Ben the survey itself is part of the Empire Building. It takes people to create the questions and spin the results. The surveys I have answered consisted of very biased questions. It takes a certain degree of skill to create questions that the answers to will lead to the outcome wanted by the town. I have stopped wasting my time answering these surveys.
If the town asked some volunteers to create the surveys and present unbiased results to council then the surveys would have more value.
In the current format of citizens going to a website to answer the questions the results are not even close to being statistically valid. The results cannot possibly represent the population of Cobourg. I don’t know if there is any control on who answers the questions. Can town employees answer them? Do you have to live in Cobourg or own property in Cobourg to answer? The town should provide answers to these questions. It would cost more to have statistically valid surveys but then the survey would be worth something.
I would really like to know ?
Has our infrastructure been maintained ?? if not what are all these taxes we have been paying all this time for or what have they been spending $$ on all these years ???
Now we are redoing the outside of the L UC I Building and they can’t even keep the Power on
Our hydro went out at least 8 times during July and finally Blew out some of our Kitchen appliances which I am sure is happening a lot every where in Cobourg .
And Lets not forget the Total Lack of Parking south of King st and nearer to the Beach —
yet our Former Planner sees fit to go into private practice sells off the Town parking lot by the Post office just before retiring and went work for the Developer that bought it . When in reality that whole property project is needed for Parking NOW never mind the future . Just come by this weekend to confirm . Then he manages to get reduced parking Density for another project Developer he represents by approx 40 % also in the Beach area south of King When he was actually the one that fought to stop other Developers of this practice 20 years prior
when the Plaza Hotel was converted to Apts and stores on the west side of the Town Hall .
it has No parking all was pay in Leu .
Why are these matters Never Looked into or Questioned ????????????
Next will be a special Parking lot Fee
Is the parking lot in question not going to have underground municipal parking as part of the development? A much better option. Downtown Cobourg and our waterfront should not be covered in surface parking lots. We’re talking the most valuable land in the town. We have plenty of oversized surface parking lots everywhere else in town. The goal should be to get people living and walking in downtown Cobourg. Where parking is necessary underground is ideal, or places tucked away and unseen.
Also, for such a tax fighter you seem completely oblivious to the fact that reduced levels of parking in these developments means more tax revenue. The land is being wasted as surface parking, the revenue being generated is far less than it’s developed.
Then I guess we should quit promoting the DownTown and Beach area
if we don’t have parking for all these visitors Not only that but our rural Community and the events Held at the waterfront Victoria Park bring vehicles that will in all likly hood not fit underground IE : pickup trucks / vans or small trailers . And if this is a Condo owned
location leased back to the Town The By Law Dept and Police have advised all othe Condo Corps they will not enforce on Condo Corp lands . We have to get private security ???
Plus there is a well known underground water course running under lese lands that ends up in the Harbour We are not even sure that has been addressed , or will it be an excuse not to complete with underground
This underground water issue has and continues to be an issue in the Third st .area
And if underground parking is a Real thing with the Planning Dept past and present then why was it not insisted upon at the Boulder Project at the corner of Willian and University with their expensive apts.
We have already lost a number of event in the area partially due to the lack of parking and the inconvenience of no parking for larger vehicles , supply trailers and trucks
next we will be eating up the Green space that’s left due to over ambitious development and the almighty Tax need of this Town
The beach has always been busy, always. You made the decision to move to the busiest area of Cobourg. Some ‘due diligence’ on your part would have revealved the town was trying to develop the area further. If you wanted piece and quiet and ease of parking, you could have move somewhere like New Amherst. In terms of “Green space”, all these developments were originally industrial, parking lots or dilapidated buildings. It is hugely ironic that you contributed to what you want to stop. You moved into a waterfront condo, your building was parking or makeshift greenspace.
Another useless exercise designed by Staff and some Cllrs to pat themselves on the back and say that the public was consulted.
Just how many of these farcical consultations do we have to endure when we know that in the report an exhaustive list of comments will be produced as evidence of consultation and then ignored by the writers of the report.
The main question here is “WILL THEY LISTEN” when history has shown they don’t – just ask Bryan how many of his well researched presentations have had any effect?
just my two cents worth
Ben has a point. Zero
That’s why, for the most part, I have stopped making delegations.
As Ken Strauss notes, the point of the is to find ways to spend more money, not less.
Build the municipal empire. The sheeple will gladly pay for it.
As is usual with town spending surveys their design seems to be orientated towards getting an answer of “spend more” or at least “don’t spend less”.
The question about a dedicated infrastructure levy to “reduce taxes” is ridiculous! Whether it is described as “property tax” or “infrastructure fee” or “stormwater management fee”, the result is that we pay more! Why not keep it simple so that everyone realizes that they are being gouged to support our ever expanding bureaucracy?
Council should think like a corporate entity. You have to cut costs. Endless spending doesn’t work. No corporate company can just keep spending as our council does. Taxing constitutes can’t continue.
Do as other corporations do, implement a 10% cut. Stop hiring, stop consultants. Council could save tax payers alot of money!
John,
You are absolutely correct.
The Town is a $65M+ corporation. It is way past time that it started acting like one.
Well said, John! The majority of our taxes go to pay salaries. We need to eliminate ( through attrition) many of the positions that serve little or no value to taxpayers. Venture 13 and the one suggested by Mrs. Anonymous are some suggestions. Our rate of annual property tax increases is unsustainable. Its only a matter of time before anyone will want to move here which, in turn, will reflect in diminished property values.
Bill,
That’s why staff wants the increases to be “fees”, so they won’t increase the property tax. Some residents recognize this tactic for the scam that it is. However, many don’t. The out-of-towners who may be considering moving to Cobourg won’t be advised otherwise and will fall for the Town’s BS.
Bryan. You are right. First the Stormwater Fee then this proposal. Is there anything the Cobourg Taxpayers Association can help with in getting the message out to all taxpayers that tax increases are being cosmetically hid and how misleading the Town/leadership are being.
Rational,
The problem isn’t the message, it’s the delivery system.
Media in Cobourg (NC) is fragmented to say the least.
This blog (Draper) does a really good job but is limited to those who have “discovered” it.
Print media is expensive and while the coverage is good, the uptake is unknown. NN, Ptbro Examimer
Radio is fragmented: 89.7, 93.3, ??
CTA.ca good, but limited to those who have “discovered” it
Town web sites. Unknown reach and quality
Fragmented Social media: Unknown reach.
Real-estate sites: This info is not in their best interest. How to get them on-board?
Perhaps a flyer delivered to every household (10K) in Cobourg
Printing cost is reasonable
Distribution (CP) is expensive $5-10K
Volunteers??
Go Fund Me??
John does an excellent job of providing freely available and unbiased reporting. In addition, he allows everyone to present their personal perspectives on Cobourg’s problems and their solutions. Exactly what local media should do!
I recently discussed the local media situation with two intelligent friends. Both are aware of John’s site but refuse to read it. One thinks that everything here is too negative — an inherent problem with discussing the reality of today’s Cobourg. The other thinks that John is biased and “not a real journalist”.
With such attitudes there is little hope for improving the situation or educating the public.
Real journalists are accredited and funded by the Canadian Government 🙂
Running as a Corporate entity – seems doomed to failure in government under the “we have money left over from our budget allotment – quick we must spend it all before the fiscal year ends or next year they will reduce our budget” seems more the norm in government.
Would you suggest that this is double Taxation and is HST going to be applied to Fees
as is the Norm on fees of professionals ??