Cobourg Police say that “concerns raised online about community safety and crime … do not align with the reports we have been receiving” so they conducted a community canvass in the east end of Cobourg. They wanted to “hear directly from residents about their community safety concerns, learn about any unreported crime, and look at how we can address concerns or bring issues to the appropriate community partner to be able to address the issue.” The problem is that people feel unsafe but it seems that this is not reflected in crime reports – so it’s good to see Police being proactive and trying to understand the concerns. Police have not yet said specifically how they will react to information learned except that they will “work to address police-related issues” and “post follow-up actions, resources, and responses to canvass feedback on the CPS Facebook page”.
Canvas Details
From Press Release – unedited
Between 1:30 pm and 4:00 pm on November 11, uniform officers and special constables canvassed 116 homes. They spoke with 90 individuals from the neighbourhoods of Cottesmore Avenue, Meredith Avenue, Thomas Street, Jane Street, Brook Road North, Rolling Street, and King Street East (between Cottesmore Avenue and Brook Road North).
The top community concerns brought forward by residents were:
- Feeling unsafe while walking in the neighbourhood.
- Concerns with people trespassing on their property.
- Concerns with property being stolen from backyards and porches.
- Concerns with people going through garbage and recycling.
- Finding drug paraphernalia in the area.
- Speed and traffic concerns.
- Street lighting.
When asked what they would like to see done to address concerns, the top responses were:
- Increased police presence through foot patrols, especially at night.
- Implementation of CCTV cameras in and around neighbourhoods.
- Speed and traffic enforcement in the area, especially around schools.
- Better neighbourhood lighting.
It’s good to see the Police taking this initiative – they say they will “conduct community canvasses in other areas of the Town of Cobourg in the future”. And the personal touch with visits and not an online survey is welcome. Note that “follow-up actions, resources, and responses to canvass feedback will be posted on the CPS Facebook page“.
Resources
- Cobourg Police Media page
- Report to Police Board on 21 November – NEW – additional to original post. On agenda of Board meeting on 21 November. More details including statistics of involvement at encampment.
- Town Statement/Update – 17 November – NEW
Print Article:
Well we now know how the police will react, the chief thinks more officers are needed. How is that logical? If residents are not feeling safe yet reports to the police do not reflect that why should there be more police hired? Oh wait is it to replace the 20% that are off on sick leave on any given day? Again this is not affordable for the taxpayers of Cobourg. There are currently about 35 sworn officers yet over 40 are needed.There are 11 auxiliary police yet 17 are needed. Cobourg must have quite the crime rate to justify this much police presence. Amalgamate with Port Hope or form a county police force but save money not expect more to be spent on policing.
Great town We now have our own free garbage and disposal site. No need to tag garbage bags. Open 24 hrs. Also has a mini pick yourself food bank, a colourful living complex with a running brook setting. Thank you, thank you, Thank you Mun.of Cobourg, Prince Ford and King Trudeau . Looking forward to the new brochure promoting our town.
Has anyone seen Pete fishers video of the encampment? Have a bucket close by while you watch it. This video should be shown at the TCS. This is how GWC makes the encampment a happy place for the people.
You are right; the video is extremely difficulty to watch the exaggerated state of irresponsibility on the part of the enablers and the campers. Those hundreds of discarded cans of food would have instead filled the shelves of the local Food Banks!
Not to mention GWC supports this grouping to continue at this site long after the issuing of a no trespassing notice, because there is an agenda to be pushed.
It would be reasonable to expect that these folks funded in part by our donations would be trying to make forward progress for these people and help assure at least their safety as we know the health of these individuals is not of concern to any of these enablers…proven by the public support of illegal drug consumption taking priority over assistance in seeking recovery from the illness of addiction.
This article is about City of Toronto moving out an encampment today. The Superior Court of Ontario agreed which shows the Windsor ruling is not all encompassing and the strategy of Mayor Cleveland, MPP Picinni and PC VandaGraff is incorrect and a stall.
Similarities between the two encampments stand out. On TV last night residents of that area had concerns of crime, violence, drugs and it being located in proximity to schools and daycare.
My question to leadership is will you now move
forward and shut the Brookside Encampment down?
https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/toronto-confirms-plans-to-clear-kensington-market-encampment-on-friday-morning-1.6658563
The Kingston decision is in. Judge denies Kingston’s application to clear encampment | CBC News
The judge in the Kingston case stated he is not bound by the Waterloo ruling. Homeless people are permitted to erect night shelters but might have to take them down in the morning.
Thank you for the information. It seems Judges are having differing interpretations on encampments/removal; which supports why Cobourg Leadership should set forth an application to clear the Encampment.
Rational,
As unsightly, unpopular and unhealthy as the Brookside encampment may be, it is on PROVINCIAL property, not Cobourg’s land. It is up to the PROVINCE to deal with the encampment, not Cobourg. After all of the discussion on this point, I thought this was clear.
That does not mean that Cobourg’s leadership should be sitting on their hands. Lobby the province and encourage it to do the right thing: close the encampment. Help (force) the province to break its bureaucratic action paralysis.
I suspect there is a lot of back channel push & shove negotiation going on. The powers that be are not stupid. Its a matter of leverage and face saving.
Hopefully a solution will be announced soon.
Bryan,
“Thought this was clear”
Your reprimand is unwarranted and insulting. Very unprofessional.
I have seen how you respond to postings. Please do not respond to any of mine going forward.
What is unprofessional about noting that the resort campers are on provincial property and thus it is up to the province to determine whether to request their removal? Is there some aspect of their responsibility with which you disagree?
https://pub-northumberland.escribemeetings.com/FileStream.ashx?DocumentId=8794
-to your point push & shove negotiations…
Northumberland County Social Service Committee will meet Nov. 29th at 1:p.m.– on page 4 notice a closed session – “matters pertaining to a proposed or pending acquisition or disposition of land and confidential negotiations Housing and Homelessness.” The mayor of PH sits on this committee. Furnace St.? Brookside? sectioning off land??
The undernoted article today speaks to fires at tents in Totronto. How many days is Brookside from having its headlines?
The Province is not going to evict based on what’s done to date. It IS up to Cobourg Leadership to press this issue and not continue to say/fall back on “Voluntary Resolution”
Cobourg should be able to file anything they want – it will get attention. File applications against the Province of Ontario and to the Courts concurrently – see what happens. Let’s not be complacent because someone says that’s not the correct process. I don’t agree with the over kill of technical being comments made. Do you think the Enablers would just do nothing if the roles were reversed.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/numerous-tents-go-up-in-flames-in-kensington-market-park
Just adding to the above:
The Encampment is in Cobourg – impacting everyone, messing up Cobourg (crime, drugs, safety, piles of garbage on site/around town). This is impacting everyone from Seniors, Parents, Students when walking on King Street going/coming from school or lunch. People didn’t move here for this.
We should be able to get the Encampment shut down for these reasons.
Take a stand. Yes – we all know its on Provincial Land/the technical process, but be creative and look beyond/develop a strategy.
https://pub-northumberland.escribemeetings.com/FileStream.ashx?DocumentId=8794
We are all frustrated and want answers now about what the decision makers are going to do to remove the encampment, and I mean from this town. I will be awaiting the outcome of the Nov. 29th Northumberland Community Social Service meeting. see page 4 – a closed session – disposition of land???
Rational,
“How many days is Brookside from having its headlines?”.
You may want to take a look at Fisher’s excellent Editorial & video that has just been published.
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/11/27/video-editorial-cobourg-needs-to-stop-dancing-with-the-devil-aka-infrastructure-ontario/
All that wasted food, the volunteers that deliver it must be disgusted by what they see. And the illegal encampment group must be laughing as they are followed around and their mess is always cleaned up.
Yes.
Insidious entitlement. Preached by “supporter’s” who follow Machiavellian principles.
We are fortunate to have Fisher keep us rightfully informed.
In my opinion Pete Fisher’s reporting seems to have changed. Regardless of his personal opinion, his interviews used to give the campers the opportunity to make a case for being good people/neighbours who have fallen into hard times. Now PF is showing us who the campers really are. The campers are not being respectful of the help they are getting. That could be due to mental illness and/or drug addiction. This mess was created with enablers helping. Is anybody questioning the stories of neighbours of certain properties these campers came from? Does anybody still think just providing housing for these people without a great deal of professional support, including rules, is a good idea? Would sleeping cabins be any better? When we heard “names like Bernardo and Williams” we knew these were extreme exceptions, not likely to happen to us. Encampments are not exceptions, they are happening near us. Yes, as PF wrote, “people are scared.”
For those who were unable to attend the recent Police Services Board meeting, Chief VandeGraaf’s presentation is now online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1xTGj1yCnM
Direct staff to initiate the requirements of the Planning Act for issuance of a Temporary Zoning By-Law to allow for shelter use of the underused municipal land at 3200 County Rd 10, with the intention of negotiating a Licensing Agreement with Green Wood Coalition for use of the property for a 6-month 4-cabin Sleeping Cabin Pilot initiative; and further, • That Council direct staff to incorporate conditions into any Licensing Agreement covering the requirements outlined in Staff Report PD28-2
Port Hope Committee of the Whole Nov. 21st, met and many residents were in attendance waiting for the outcome of the vote. It was voted down 5 No and 2 yes. Welcome community very happy.
Video – Port Hope Rejects Sleeping Cabin Project at Former School Site – Today’s Northumberland – Your Source For What’s Happening Locally and Beyond (todaysnorthumberland.ca)
Port Hope Council demonstrating transparent and decisive leadership for their taxpayers.
https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/northumberland-sleeping-cabin-collective-bowed-but-unbroken-by-cobourg-council-decision/article_5b6f1fdd-5e4e-5b7c-bd7a-7ce2e951c7c9.html
Yes a decisive vote but I do not think transparent.
April 2023 Cobourg council voted down the sleeping cabins., short term use, costly, and allows county to drag their feet.
November 2023 Port Hope council voted down sleeping cabins again on municipal lands
It was mentioned that alternate lands, other municipal lands and privately owned lands could be looked at. PH Mayor sits on County Council and she directed McKeeting to the Northumberland County Social Services. Political maneuvering. Provincial lands, does she know something that is not being disclosed to the public?
I can’t imagine anyone was happy about the potential for a future tiny home slum being located in Welcome unless a condition for being a resident in a tiny home is living a life of sobriety. Country residences would have undoubtedly been susceptible to property theft and trespass. The Esso station may have seen an increase in store and cigarette sales but it would have been offset by regular disturbances and thefts (similar to Macks across from the police station). It would have been a considerable distance to hike or bike into Port Hope to attend NA, AA meetings and treatment appointments in addition to shop for food or household supplies.
I also suspect the advocates would prefer something far more visible to taxpayers – being tucked away in rural Ontario doesn’t help the cause.
https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/council/not-necessarily-no-to-sleeping-cabins-it-s-no-to-george-hamilton-here-s-how/article_8e56ed04-0a67-59fb-8083-16a83b733af5.html
northumberland news just posted,
My direct question to MPP/Mayor. What are we waiting for in order to close down the illegal encampment? Direct answer please!!!.
Beds have been opened for anyone including the homeless seeking drug detoxification and treatment on the east side of Division Street it was announced on CHEX news tonight.
According to the news report it’s only one bed. Which is better than nothing. But it still limits the amount of people that can be helped locally.
I heard the town was opening 6 beds for homeless addicts at the old Woodlawn inn (at $30k per month cost to taxpayers) and likely they will stay empty as nobody will want them. I’m still not quite sure what they want.
I just don’t understand or get how Council thinks. This is a link to Woodlawn – converted from a small hotel to a luxury rehab centre that those entering pay significantly to receive programmed treatment to get better.
https://canadiancentreforaddictions.org/?utm_source=GMB_CO
So the homeless addicts just get to have a bed and carry on with their habits? Will those that are at the Woodlawn for treatment be happy?
What is Woodlawn thinking? This is the wrong venue!
I guess it’s reserved only for those who actually want rehab – which apparently none of them want. But if they can continually show beds are empty it’s more ammunition to have encampments shut down. If the town can prove resources are not used then it helps with legally shutting it down 💁♀️
Why should the taxpayer have to pay for an unrelated addicts recovery? It just isn’t right. Also, Woodlawn is not the venue for encampment drug addicts. And I am certain the cost for rehabilitation at Woodlawn is much more then $5,000 a month.
I believe it’s 20-30k a month. I don’t disagree, just stating what I’ve heard. I just don’t know if these people are ever truly going to be happy or get what they want. What we really need is a new federal government.
When I asked about cost I was told treatment is $1000 a day minimum 30 days. That may depend on the addiction as alcohol, crack and fentanyl treatments may be all different. I really don’t know. If the federal government built and staffed some rehab facilities then we could send our addicts there, maybe. Would we be able to force them to go? What will it cost per addict? How long will it take for such a facility to be built? Without knowing answers I am quite confident beds will be available at the old Woodlawn long before a government built facility is operational. What is it worth to get the addicts off drugs? If we do not get them off drugs then what do we do? We could install some lights to make it easier to monitor their activities but that costs too.
Hello Kevin –
I was just about to write a post which would have echoed many of your points. There is a Rehab in Winnipeg presently that is very well equipped to deal with the problems of addiction. Live in. More are obviously needed and have been touted in Parliament by Poilievre to Trudeau for the need for more.
Perhaps Woodlawn offered a reduced rate for their services to for this particular clientele group. Certainly will be an indicator if we are ever advised of anyone entering from the Encampment.
Years past they used to have sanitariums for alcoholics. So why not drug rehabs in quantity to deal with the number? Also mental health institutions need to be built for those too drug addled or suffering from major mental illnesses.
Further study is need as to how these people got there in the first place? Poor homes – government review of enabling benefits?, addiction problems generatiional?, harmful prescriptions first legitmately given? A very large problem evident everywhere and coming to town as we are not an island.
I’m sure how they got there will be dealt with in rehab.
The idea is to prevent further people from going down that road Sonya. Adjustments to programs, changes to laws and hopefully a new Federal Government which has enabled much of this with the laws they have put upon the situation which have prevented effective solutions.
Myself I’ll say it at the polls as I have done for many past elections hoping the electorate will wake up. Until then there is nothing as an individual I can do, I have made every suggestion I can think of so I will take the advice given to me by an older relative and enjoy my life.
One last thing Sonya, I hope you won’t get hurt or suffer legal consequenches should you equip yourself with your weapon of choice which you said were your plans in an earlier blog.
For a large % of people in the encampments, mental illness is deep seated, going back to childhood – there is no quick fix like a couple of weeks at Woodlawn or anywhere else. It’s a Provincial Health responsibility- very costly for a system that’s already imploding. Governments have known the impact of an aging population for decades even without the further impact of Covid & the drug crisis. As a larger % of the population enjoys retirement, our kids & grandkids making up the smaller % workforce will be taxed like Denmark to sustain the public healthcare system that’s not sustainable. There are no billions $$$ available to build& staff facilities to deal with the increasing mental health problems of our younger people. If a person from the encampment presented at a GTA Emergency for Psychiatric care, they could be on a wait list for a year or more to access treatment. It’s a heartbreaking mess.
Most people who have read this have missed the point. The town pays for 6 beds to prove that the resources are available and that people are choosing not to use them. This is to justify the request that the eviction notice is to be enforced at Brookside, and proves that our campers and their advocates have ulterior motives beyond a truly beneficial solution. They have been offered top of the line treatment and still won’t move! The Advocates want to have all the control and want to force the Town and County into giving them the right to do whatever they want. I don’t like the location of it either, eating at the Woodlawn was a rare treat for me. That doesn’t change the fact that treatment for addiction should always be the first priority, having that as a resource openly available is evidence of a community willing to take the first step and it sets a clear standard of what our community expects first and foremost. How are we getting out of this crisis without offering drug treatment?
Hi Mervin,
I agree with you, the Advocates have ulterior motives.
There is shelter and motel availability. I think that is where much frustration comes from.
Treatment for addictions should be a priority (including prevention in our schools). But people cannot be forced into treatment. Interesting short video from MPP David Piccini on YourTV: https://yourtv.tv/node/355997
You’re right, they cannot be forced into treatment. These people keep talking about rights and freedoms, but want government funding. Government is not here to enable poor outcomes. You should either accept government housing and/or treatment with conditions, or don’t, and deal with the consequences. Communities have the right to not subsidize enablers and people who are one step closer to the point of no return with every enabled drug use. The availability of treatment and housing is important in allowing our representatives to advocate for the removal of the campers from Brookside and removing newcomer tents that may pop up elsewhere. Then again without enforcing rules those resources will soon be abused (with their current leadership groups-how do you fix that?) but at least we won’t have the current situation. The sense of entitlement has really removed some of my hope for positive outcomes for those addicted. Without a modest expectation of personal responsibility this is looking pretty demoralizing.
I don’t know why an eviction has not be enacted at the encampment. The Waterloo precedent made available beds a requirement. The “Housing First” initiative is nonsensical, especially concerning liabilities. A person has to be clean & of clear mind in order to respect & be responsible toward themself, & then a home.
If “advocates” encouraged & supported healthy sobriety back in March — many could be on their way to a road of recovery. A friend of mine was just accepted into treatment, in Brockville (6 month waitlist). If one is homeless or involved in the RAAM Clinic you are accelerated into treatment care.
The Compassionate Care Intervention Act in Alberta is an alternative I believe many in Ontario would benefit from. Prevention in Schools is also essential in averting deadly addictions.
https://www.unitedconservative.ca/annoucement/compassionate-intervention/
Greenwood coalition was at TTS school in Port Hope telling the kids that the encampment is a happy place instead of teaching them the dangers of drug use.
Do you mean TCS (Trinity) the private school?
It is TCS. On the Greenwood Coalition Facebook today they posted a copy of a letter from a grade 8 student. Quoting from the letter “ You Showed us how happy Cobourg encampment can be and opened our eyes”.
In my view I question is Greenwood Coalition’s presentation today right in the best interest of students or is it in the best interest of its agenda? The encampment is filled with drug addicts, crime and violence. It terrorizes the adjacent neighbourhood who have established Neighbourhood Watch Teams patrolling at night. It is not a happy place.
I personally find this type of interaction by GWC concerning. Should they not be brought under control? How can municipalities take them seriously?
Interesting. I know of one TCS student who lives relatively close to the encampment. Her parents have changed their locks. Yesterday, in Peterborough, I was told how widespread theft is. One guy with a GPS tracker on his bike, went to an encampment to get his bike. The police know how widespread the problems are there. Maybe things will be better with the new policing policy. TCS students need to be learning math, science, languages, humanities. The skills they need to be the next generation of leaders to keep our society running, make it better and not destroy it.
GWC and other related groups will not stop. They seem to believe they are right to help the drug addicts and will do everything they can to that end. Sleeping cabins is one idea, it is not going away. In our schools students are being taught to be ‘white’ means you have privilege and are a racist. It is causing problems, dividing students who were friends, instead of helping. Non-white students are learning they are oppressed, whites are learning they are racists. Critical race theory, CRT, for anybody who wants to look it up. It is the same mentality that teaches Palestinian children Jews are evil. It led to the brutal rape and murder of 1400 children, babies, women. Here, in our schools, children are being taught some controversial things. Even going as far as math is racist. Math allows science which has led to machines, medicines, etc. Do you really want to take away all our machines, no electricity? Maybe taking away medicine/drugs will help make tent encampments a happier place. Supporting people to live in tents without any responsibilities is dividing Cobourg. How can this end well?
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/05/11/guest-speaker-removed-from-cobourg-collegiate-institutes-a-day-of-empowerment/
In May 2023 – It seems the school principal of CCI was proactive and cancelled Missy McLean’s/ Nicole Beatty’s talk to students.
The article said one of the three women was removed from speaking, Missy McLean.
This rant is supposed to be funny, is that it? Jeez.
No Deborah, my rant is not supposed to be funny. People are suffering and in my opinion lots of people think things are going to get worse. I have heard how Palestinian children are taught in school to hate Jews and it is good to kill them. Obviously most people think this is very wrong. Concentration camps were a tragic result of racists ideology. In our schools children are being taught white people are racist. It is causing issues between students. We are a long way from what is happening between Palestinians and Jews but we are heading in that direction. A recent federal job posting states “… preference will be given to Indigenous people (First Nations, Metis or Inuit) or persons with a disability.” It also goes on to say candidates must self-identify. Does that mean I can self-identify as indigenous to qualify for the job? I certainly can self-identify as a woman and anybody who questions me is hateful. Are people who oppose those who believe we need to provide housing to the campers just as hateful? It is good to help people but the people being helped need to show compassion and appreciation. That is not happening.
As a parent, I would have significant concerns for an agenda based advocacy group presenting to students. I question the administrations decision to allow GWC into a grade 8 class. Was the content of the presentation vetted and the learning outcomes clear. What was the objective? Was it to present encampers, struggling with mental health, homelessness, crime, poverty and addiction as a positive part of a community? Did they discuss the impact on taxpayers, visitors, theft, trespass, violence, drug paraphernalia, etc… Did they discuss a one-sided position in favour of tiny homes, consumption sites and other “harm reduction” strategies?
I support destigmatizing mental health issues but attempts to normalize drug addiction, crime and encampers isn’t ok.
GWC should be defunded. They call themselves radicals and members of their group are linked to extreme ideologies. Abolitionists and anarchists. These are dangerous ideas and followings in our society and they should not be in our schools talking to our kids.
Sorry, yes. TCS. There’s a letter circulating from one of the kids in the class. I have sent that letter to David piccini.
Just checked grades 5-12
If you mean TCS Trinity College School, Private School in PH. GWC are probably looking for donations. I am shocked that the head master of the school would allow them to present to a group of young adults. I think the grades start at Grade 8-12, so 14-18 yrs. Thanks Sonya for the information.
If by they you mean the squatters, they want another crack house where they can do drugs and run a flop house.
I am just reading the Cobourg police service board report. Lighting at 390 King St. East, directed to IO, Extensive lighting should be in place. all above the tents along with camera’s. Hope this will be done. What effect will it have? A deterrent to drug dealers, some protection for the neighbouring properties.
Chief Paul, on Municipal Matters said police officer Janice McDonald will be setting up a new project in the new year, called Community Engagement Enforcement Unit, he said it is not a feel good group.
The West Beach Encampment was set up Aug. 7th, and Pete Fisher interviewed Virginia?. He said what do you want? Virginia said well a tiny home would be nice. (see NSCC FAQ. for description of the difference between a tiny home, and sleeping cabin. They want them in a community setting, on government property, ( a group of people having common ties and interests and of course all paid by the endless supply of money from municipal, provincial, federal taxpayers.)
At the risk of sounding vitriol, I would like to see our elected officials.
MP-Lawrence-MPP-Piccini-Mayor Cleveland, interviewed at 390 King St East. I want to hear them say to all those living at the illegal encampment. Taxpayers will not endorse dollars to fund sleeping cabins/tiny homes for the BUT I WANT‘s
Taxpayers will and do endorse dollars to fund you to rehabilitate.
Pack up your tents and move on.
Virginia and Chris have been interviewed several times. In one interview, at Brookside, Chris makes a comment about social housing.
On the Peterborough Examiner website Ben commented on a recent article:
“Yes. Let’s keep shelling out millions to provide permanent ghettos to drug users. Great job Peterborough! Words getting out too. Pretty soon we’ll be renowned for our compassionate, unliveable cities.”
Ben, I am fairly certain, is being sarcastic about spending millions on what people want. There are photos of the sleeping cabins which may not be suitable for Virginia and Chris as the bed is not very big. Ben used the word ‘compassionate’ which I think is important. Is compassion giving people everything they want? Children need to be raised with rules about proper nutrition, behaviour, etc. for their benefit, and not just give them what they what out of some misguided idea of compassion.
Are the people dropping off food to the encampment asking the campers to do anything to earn the food? Are the police charging campers for breaking laws? If not then why not? Just giving the campers food, and other things they want, may be showing compassion but it enables the campers to continue on their path to destruction. Their own destruction and the destruction of our communities. Ben seems to think our compassion will lead to unlivable cities. It is a huge problem, compassion is not going to solve it. In interviews both Chris and Virginia have stated the campers are responsible adults capable of being responsible. It is well past the time for them to show us this is true. Most of us seem to think they just want free stuff and to do drugs.
As a Ben on this site just let me tell you it was not me on the Peterborough site. Your comment made no distinction as to who the Ben is please clarify your comment. Obviously you want to single Ben (whoever he is) out by making mention of his name FOUR times in your comment. Wonder why?
ben, commenter on Cobourg News Blog, I was just using a comment from a somewhat related article and providing a reference if anybody wanted to check. The name of the commenter is not relevant to the point I was trying to make. His comment included the word ‘compassionate’ which, like the word compassion, is often used to virtue signal or further some agenda. We need to be careful of messages to understand the real meaning. Sometimes we can take things too far like wondering why I used the name Ben four times. Until I read your comment I did not think about it at all. Maybe, but hopefully not, there is some unconscious significance for using Ben four times.
Hi Kevin, you speak of Compassion — a word that has been overused and misused. It makes me think of 2 relevant quotes:
“TO BELIEVE IN PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY WOULD BE TO DESTROY THE WHOLE SPECIAL ROLE OF THE ANOINTED, WHOSE VISION CASTS THEM IN THE ROLE OF RESCUERS OF PEOPLE TREATED
UNFAIRLY BY ‘SOCIETY’.”
DR. THOMAS SOWELL
If this above quote stands true then why: ‘Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.’
https://pub-cobourg.escribemeetings.com/Players/ISIStandAlonePlayer.aspx?Id=f589f224-b2f3-4bf7-9859-bd5bdc5c6b2f
How many years do the police have to canvass the community and ask about our safety concerns??
On the Town of Cobourg web site calendar on May 11, 2021 at 4pm the Committee of Adjustment met to discuss a change to 351 John St,, rooming house, to add four more persons in live in the basement!! The owner, residents, police chief Paul all said a few words, Fire Dept. Chief said since 2014 they have had 157 calls to that residence. The video is about 50 minutes.
Pity the residents on the other side of the duplex, just as was done for the residents who live in the other section of the Division Street duplex!
The other side, the north half of the same building, now owned by the same person? Both units are rooming houses now. These are 2 of 3 still operating properties of the same owner. She has lived in one of them. I even heard a door was made to connect the 2 but this could be wrong or the door closed off. The Division property that is boarded up is the south unit of a 4 unit row house. There used to be lots of police and fire department visits to the Division house. Most ‘visits’ were from people dropping off food for residents or, as strongly suspected, buying drugs. It is much quieter now that it is boarded up. The popular activities of the former residents, bicycle painting and repairs for example, have moved. Sometimes to the sidewalks near transition house or the encampment. With the encampment at least emergency vehicles can get well off of King St. At Division the street would often be partially blocked.
Thanks, Kevin, for the 351 John Street duplex owner information. Sad state of affairs for all living in its vicinity!
The 413 Division Street house was obviously a suspicious place as was the group’s 43 James Street West “tenancy.”
I can write this despite the Chief of Police stating on Municipal Matters that there is a lot of misinformation on social media. Their faces are on private surveillance systems and they have been apprehended and charged.
The unit on the other side came available for sale shortly after this event…bought up by the landlord of 351.
It doesn’t take much to imagine the type of individuals that then rented and continue to rent both units of this duplex and the impact that continues on in the neighbourhood.
The night wanderings and drug dealing are enhanced with the warming hub located barely two blocks away.
Small town Ontario is quite correct in questioning how long police must continue to canvas known problem areas {this one monitored by cameras , because the problems are so well pronounced} before the complaints of unsafe conditions and the fear of violent actions are taken seriously.
I feel that the concerns expressed by Cobourg residents are not taken seriously by actually laying charges. For example trespassing, this is a serious offence and how often are charges laid against trespassers? Guaranteed the trespassers are looking for things to steal, houses and sheds to break into, and assaults have occurred. Instead of tiptoeing around the criminals how about charging them?
As far as the report requested by MPP Piccini I hope the chief is able to communicate accurately the crimes that are occurring since the encampment arrived, perhaps someone could then enforce the trespassing notice and actually evict. So on one hand the chief says resources are stretched thin on the other hand concerns “raised online to not align with reports we’re receiving.” Why are resources stretched thin then if the issues in Cobourg are only in our minds?
As far as increasing police budget since Cobourg continues to deteriorate I would say the CPS and board are ineffective and it’s time to try another route such as OPP. All the taxpayer keeps getting asked it to throw more money at the problems and things get worse not better.
Police need to start stigmatizing crime and drugs again.
This letter from MPP Picinni to the CPSB dated November 13th ( from CPSB Agenda) requesting information on Brookside and Police involvement from the Chair and Police Chief. ( From the CPSB Agenda). I thought the Police Chief was providing information firstly for Cobourg residents, but I guess if MPP Picinni had not requested data would have been forthcoming to residents.
https://pub-cobourg.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=34448
The Police Chief mentions resources are stretched because of the Encampment. Is this a forerunner to the Budget season coming up to in support addition staffing levels/equipment?
There is no doubt the police have had many calls to Brookside in the past few months. How many fewer calls have they had to a couple of properties that have been boarded up? Has there been a net increase in calls? To me that is an important question when looking at overall work levels for staffing/equipment. I really hope anybody doing budgeting can understand this.
When considering staffing requirements all activities should be considered and prioritized. For example, I believe that 2 officers are devoted to the HARP social services program. Why not assign them to policing duties rather than spending over $250K per year for services that are the responsibility of the county?
Regarding the Police annual budget, in an October 18, 2022 Cobourg Blog posting it was commented that Council can only approve or reject the entire Police budget submitted by the Police Board and that Council cannot make any changes to details.
Given that CPS represented ~ 25% of the Towns’ 2023 Operating Budget why do the Mayor/Council not have more of a say/input as they represent the Taxpayers and it’s the Taxpayers who have to pay? Particularly as the 2023 budget increased 6% after removal of the Stormwater Fee and 2024 is starting at a 5% increase. Why do CPS/CPSB get to independently set its budget without changes by Council? I wonder if any Council have ever rejected a Police Budget?
Rational,
The CPS cost is $2M+ more than what it appears, due $2M+ net profit from the crimcheck business, paying for capital and some operations expenses. Without this funding the CPS cost would be over 30% of the tax levy.
As to why council can’t modify the CPS budget, blame the provincial government: the Police Act. As you noted, Council could reject the CPS budget and suggest changes. If the CPSB doesn’t agree the same budget comes back to Council for approval. If Council rejects it again, the matter goes to arbitration; an expensive undertaking with poor success odd.
A better way to manage this is for the two Council members and the citizen appointee to follow Council’s lead and force the CPS to make an acceptable (to Council) budget.
Thank you for this information. Would you know if the OPP were to provide enforcement for Cobourg and replace the CPS would Council have any stronger control of its budget process.
Rational,
No info on this. I suggest you ask the mayor of PH or Cramahe
Typo adjustment – should read “data would NOT have been forth coming to residents.”
Is there any point in greater CPS resources? Without adjusting policies there may be no difference
You are right. Between Sept 7 and Nov 13 there have been 244 Incidence Reports/Calls by CPS tied to the Encampment and it’s residents, with the situation only worsening. This clearly suggests/indicates that CPS policies and strategies are not working and hard changes are required.
I am personally having a hard time wrapping my head around the benefit of a CPS that outweighs the huge expense.
Aren’t the OPP called for major crimes anyway? We would be further in the hole if and when the Province started billing us each time the OPP was used.
Cobourg be like Champagne Taste on a Beer Budget.
The detailed account of Police Activity including the documented Visits of Community Services to the encampment that is attached above in Resources tells me that there is a definite need for additional help from the Province and Infrastructure Ontario solely for this site.
Great we have an Update !
But No Idea what the Police intend to do .
Just a reason to back off . This is Not just a Cobourg east problem .
No one is saying that these people in encampments don’t have wrights
but they do Not have the wright to Take from / Harass / or Infringe on others .
What I believe the Concerned & Contributing residents to this article of Mr Drapers are saying
is they Fear that their own wrights as Tax Paying private property owners are not and are not being up held
or protected .
Their family Values & Security is at risk , Peaceful Enjoyment gone , private property wright’s ignored , Doors locked all of which it seems this Police force are unable / willing to maintain .
Reactive again .
So is this Survival of the Fittest is this what Cobourg has become ??
See the latest report/update by Police Chief on Police activity at the encampment. It’s been added to resources.
From a quick look there appear to be perhaps 5-20 complaints each day that are related to Cobourg’s camping resort. Completely missing from the report is any information on the number of arrests or other resolutions of the reported issues. Why the omission?
Probably because in order to be charged there has to be a crime committed. As the Chief of Police said some time ago “It is not a crime to howl at the moon at 2 in the morning.”
People should learn the difference between feeling uncomfortable and seeing scruffy people on the street and crime!
Is theft a crime? Is trespassing a crime or breaking and entering a crime or are we suppose to accept this as normal now?
Oh I just remember this one that should get my point across. How about jumping on he top of a woman’s car half naked? Is that a crime?
Unfortunately if a person is committing a crime, an offence listed in the criminal code; for it to stick one needs a criminal and a witness. In most cases the sad incidents in the Town perpetrated by usually mentally ill people, after all as you say no normal person would strip off and jump on a car, are not criminals and usually flee the scene before the CPS can get there.
The end result leaves you frustrated and uncomfortable and angry, but no evidence for a crime to stick!
The Criminal Code of Canada – justice.gc.ca
The guy was on drugs. Police were called. Witnesses stayed on the scene. Police did not charge the man. Police did not take the man to the hospital even though the man was a danger to himself and others. There was evidence and there was a crime.
I agree Ken, why the omission on the number of arrests or other resolutions of the reported issues? I would also like to know the definition of: Community Service, Property Check, Property Related, Police Information & Assist other non police agency.
Why does our police not focus on teaching our youth about the harms caused by crystal meth, fentanyl, crack cocaine, ect. in our schools? We used to have Alymer the Safety Elephant in our Santa Clause Parades, a DUI smashed up vehicle in front of the high school, as a deterrent.
What Prevention related programs are the police doing in our children’s schools as a deterrent to quell the proliferation of hard drug use? Similar to M.A.D.D. Before & after use photographs of persons using hard drugs? The destruction caused to oneself, family, friends & community. Hard drug use may be on a larger & deadlier scale — but does that mean we Normalize it? Does that mean we give up, due to Stigma? Should hard drug use not be stigmatized, in the same manner drunk driving is or cigarette smoking? I would say the ‘Smoke Free Ontario” program worked, one just needs to examine those statistics.
I agree Ken, why the omission on the number of arrests or other resolutions of the reported issues? I would also like to know the definition of: Community Service, Property Check, Property Related, Police Information & Assist other non police agency.
Why does our police not focus on teaching our youth about the harms caused by crystal meth, fentanyl, crack cocaine, ect. in our schools? We used to have Alymer the Safety Elephant in our Santa Clause Parades, a DUI smashed up vehicle in front of the high school, as a deterrent.
What Prevention related programs are the police doing in our children’s schools as a deterrent to quell the proliferation of hard drug use? Similar to M.A.D.D. Before & after use photographs of persons using hard drugs? The destruction caused to oneself, family, friends & community. Hard drug use may be on a larger & deadlier scale — but does that mean we Normalize it? Does that mean we give up, due to Stigma? Should hard drug use not be stigmatized, in the same manner drunk driving is or cigarette smoking? I would say the ‘Smoke Free Ontario” program worked, one just needs to examine those statistics.What Prevention related programs are the police doing in our children’s schools as a deterrent to quell the proliferation of hard drug use? Similar to M.A.D.D. Before & after use photographs of persons using hard drugs? The destruction caused to oneself, family, friends & community. Hard drug use may be on a larger & deadlier scale — but does that mean we Normalize it? Does that mean we give up, due to Stigma? Should hard drug use not be stigmatized, in the same manner drunk driving is or cigarette smoking? I would say the ‘Smoke Free Ontario” program worked, one just needs to examine those statistics.
Typo, should be: “Elmer the Safety Elephant”, not Alymer.
We had our next door neighbours call the cops on us because,at 4 in the afternoon, we used a leaf blower for five mintes and they they were just about to take a bite out of their sandwich and we ruined it for them. True story. Cobourg cops are kept busy attending calls from nasty neighbours. We have since moved.
Judges, prosecutors,district attorneys need to be elected locally,,, then you will make a difference
Jones,
NO!!!
That would lead to the wildly corrupt system that exists in the US.
The judges, prosecutors and DAs are governed and act according to the laws of the land and directives issued by their bosses…the provincial and federal Attorney Generals, The AGs are appointed by the respective governments from a pool of ELECTED members of parliament.
If you don’t like what’s going on complain to Ford and JT. Better yet VOTE in the next election. Ford was elected by 16% of the electorate.
Bryan do you have the number of judges appointed by the current Ontario government? How many are from the prior Liberal government or did they get rescinded with change of government? Have wondered how many are recent appointments and how many have been sitting prior to this government. The Ontario Liberals were in for a very long time.
Also Bryan are the Ontario judges not also bound by past precedent of prior decision? I had understood also that they the Federal laws are the ones that govern their decisions. Change needs to come. But I only have my hopes the people will stand up and ensure it.
Dave,
My understanding is that precedent serves to guide the court and make it more efficient, consistent and predicable. Judges have the discretion to depart from precedent if they feel the facts/situation warrant it. This helps prevent rigidity and allows adaptation to changing social and economic conditions.
Dave,
Judges are appointed to the Ontario Court of Justice by the provincial government. The Ontario Court of Justice handles the vast majority of criminal charges laid in the province and a broad range of family court cases.
The federal government appoints judges to Ontario’s Superior Court of Justice and the Ontario Court of Appeal.
There are two committees that operate independently of the Ontario Court of Justice: Judicial Appointments Advisory Committee (JAAC) and Justices of the Peace Appointments Advisory Committee (JPAAC).
A judge’s terms are generally three years and may be reappointed
Vacancies are advertised and interested candidates apply
My understanding is that there are about 300 judges in Ontario
You seem to suggest that court decisions are made along political lines. Do you have data/analysis to support this?
First, thank you for the information on judgeships in Ontario. Second, I did not state the decisions were made on political lines but strongly on past decisions and of course the country including Ontario are governed by Federal laws in so many cases with regard to encampments and addicts rights as outlined in the laws passed reviewed in a prior Blog. As far as political though Bryan now that you mention it how many times have we read a sentence is reduced after the judges have reviewed the defendent’s “tough” background? Is that not political? I don’t think that is a factor. The victim was still victimized perhaps murdered. As I grew up in one of the then toughest areas of Toronto I don’t recall then exceptions made for coming from a deprived area. Should be do the crime expect the consequences.
Also how many of those judges I wonder are still sitting from appointment from the previous long standing Liberal Ontario government?
Dave,
You wrote “Second, I did not state the decisions were made on political lines”
What then is the purpose of your last line “Also how many of those judges I wonder are still sitting from appointment from the previous long standing Liberal Ontario government?” if not to suggest that court decisions were being made along political party lines?
The laws have undergone a sea change over the years Bryan. Judges have been appointed that will uphold these weakened laws. What happened to vagrancy laws? You didn’t have $2 was it on you? you were charged as a vagrant. Carding has been stopped. As I grew up I was once driven home from my job at 11 p.m. I looked like a kid and the police wondered if I were up to no good. We were often stopped back then – “And where might you be coming from/going?” The police got to know the residents and what was going on and I am sure prevented crimes in the neighbourhood. Now we are told this is a violation and robs police of a valuable base of knowledge. We never minded being stopped as we weren’t up to anything we took it as a normal police function. I even ended up in a line up once around age 12 after a break in at a gas station – when none of us were recognized the perp did get caught – a rich kid from outside the neighbourhood but it eliminated the innocent.
Call it political is you will Bryan – seems that is exactly what it has become.
Just to add Bryan I was a kid when picked up and driven home. 14. I chose to work rather than enter some of the less savoury ways of adding to my income in other ways living in a neighbourhood which bore more watching than your average suburban paradise.
Thinking of you stating judges don’t make decisions based on political lines – a link to just one example of the many such decisions. There are many more in various forms, not just the indigenouse – do the crime they don’t get sentenced to the time!
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-the-indigenous-bank-robber-and-the-sympathetic-judge
The Gladue Act is specific to Indigenous offenders – Gladue requires sentencing judges to consider systemic and background factors of the offender, and the types of sentencing procedures and sanctions that are appropriate in the circumstances.
Like it or not.
I am aware Rob and reinforces my statement that sentencing has become a political decision not a crime and appropriate sentence to the crime system. There have been cases before the courts that favour the offender over the victim even in the cases of murder.
Also i wasn’t just referring to Indigenous offenders – that happened to be the example in today’s Sun. Sentencing should be equal across the board to any offender – what an excuse – the fellow in the example article certainly has not improved with his continuous light sentences – 25 years of repeated armed robbery!
And Lucas Cleveland was elected by 20.5% of the Cobourg electorate. Hardly a mandate to lead Cobourg – but I guess when you look at what he has achieved in the past year he isn’t leading Cobourg.
Like it or not there is no one better suited than Ford to lead the Province right now … but we all better do our part during the next Federal election as it will likely take 20 years to undo the wrong that has been done over the last 8 – our Country is barely recognizable these days.
Rob,
LC has the mandate of those who voted.
Those who didn’t vote have no cause to complain about the way things are done.
They have forfeited that right.
In reading Rob’s post Bryan it does not pertain to Cobourg but to the negative changes in society that have come about. Either case I am entitled to complain!
Dave,
My post should have been addresses to Rational rather than Rob
But those who didn’t vote for him have the right to be critical! As do the others.
Ben,
I agree that those who voted but not for the “winner” have the right to complain. The ones who did not vote have forfeited their right to complain.
Like I said a year ago…we need Police Foot Patrol daily on King St from the old Cobourg West High School east to St Peter Church also 1 street south and 1 street north of this area. If this is not done, Cobourg risks the possibility of a Vigilante Group of Citizens that may clean out the downtown bad guys.
When were those foot patrols needed 9 to 5 or 6 til midnight ?
Lets face it these cops can’t run fast enough to catch any of these street people
They carry so much gear on their belts they can’t keep their pants up .
My 8 year could catch the character I just saw drifting across King st. He could barely stand… it was 9:40 in the morning!
Give him a ride next time. He obviously slept in and was late for work.😀
Totally agree with Cobourg Taxpayer. We are being scammed by CPS. Their door to door was nothing but a make work project. Who the heck didn’t know the answers they’d get? They just have to read some of the Facebook Groups. If we are destined to pay a good chunck of our tax dollars on a Police Force, shouldn’t they at least be regularly patrolling the known areas and start enforcing vagrancy laws? Maybe if these people knew that the cops would move them along, Cobourg wouldn’t look so attractive to them.
Municipal Matters, the chief was interviewed by York Bell-Smith and he said vagrancy laws have been redundant since 1994..
The real problem is the town council who coddles and welcomes homeless amd drug addicted morons who statistically bring more crime into neighborhoods. This increases costs to the taxpayers that supports them. All council needs to do is not fund or support these programs and they will pack up and go to the next town. Problem solved.
Part of the problem is not reporting crime. The police will not have accurate statistics if things, like a teenage girl being chased, are not reported. Some people do not bother to report as they feel nothing will be done. Or, as Cobourg taxpayer commented, it is too difficult to report. The police should understand because it is the same thing they deal with. If somebody is arrested they are most likely to be back on the streets in short order, why bother. Why bother arresting people, why bother reporting crime? Because it is your job or responsibility if you want an orderly safe community to live in. On the Brookside property at Cottesmore and King was a bunch of boxes. Likely blown across the street when left out for recycling. I got tired of seeing them and cleaned them up. I didn’t have to do this, it is a very minor thing, but I did because I care about the community I live in and now it is a tiny bit better.
Police, arrest people and charge them for drug related crime, disorderly conduct, whatever you can whenever you can. Citizens will start to trust the police more and report crime. Was that teenage girl wrong to “feel unsafe” because she was not actually harmed by the man chasing her?
Interesting regarding the cleanup you mentioned.
This morning after dropping off at CCI, I came back west along King Street. On the South side between the book store and Victoria Hall (VH) on the sidewalk were – 1.) an emptied blue box with its garbage all over the street; 2.) a bit down a mattress, partial bed frame, bike and 3 dirty bags piled up; 3.) near VH beside a garbage from garbage receptacle that had been pulled out; 4.) at VH a maintenance person beside the entrance with a water bucket and brush broom scrubbing an area, and 5.) down by Jim’s pizza more garbage – bags – food containers on the sidewalk. (These items were not there yesterday late afternoon.)
King Street was once considered a prime attraction for Cobourg. Now, due to the CPS inaction/allowing it to be overrun by addicts, crime, encampment residents as their night time play ground, it is not a desirable place to go to.
Hey—- You forgot all the Garbage bags that were ripped open and left all over the King st side walk in front of Adam Bureau’s Pawn Shop I was watching the fellows from inside the CIBC by the Cash Machines while it was happening .
Didn’t feel comfortable about taking out cash I can tell you
Wish we had some Banks outside of the down town with Drive through windows like
Port Hope and other municipalities . I move in a heartbeat !
It seems that people are being shamed for not feeling safe. A woman I know who lives behind the encampment was chased up her front lawn by some drugged out crazy person. Police told her their hands were tied. Should she feel unsafe. Every night there are people from the encampment in her backyard. Neighbourhood crime watch is the only way to go now until the encampments gone.
I’m sure the Police hands are only tied by the Police. Brookside is part of our town and therefore the Town Police must have every right to police that area. It seems like because Brookside is owned by the province, so then the local police make an excuse that there is nothing they can do. Well if they want to be that incompetent then we should have OPP in that area all day long. Then arrests could be made. OR the local Police could just do the job they are paid to do.
CPS< show us the actual laws that limit you from facing this problem.
Please, and NOW !
Of course it isn’t factual…using this logic, if an individual breaks into a school the police are unable to make an arrest?! They are charged with enforcing the law within the boundaries of the Town of Cobourg – all laws, in all places – not all laws, in some places.
When I, and two others witnessed what looked like a truck stopping in the middle of the street in front of Community Living (beside CR Gummow) reaching toward the passenger window with what looked like a weapon of some sort to me (and many others) hearing two loud bangs and seeing smoke in a circular pattern around the passenger window, the truck peeled off. I called it in. I was told there was no need to wait for the police. The officer I spoke with (I stayed to give a statement which I felt was the right thing to do)heard the two bangs. (The police released a statement that they heard nothing) The school was NOT put on lockdown despite one of the witnesses having a child in the school. Later the police released a statement that fireworks were set off. From the window of a truck?? They neglected to mention this in the release. I felt gaslighted. Pete Fisher did an editorial saying pretty much the same thing. Mysteriously everything about this situation was scrubbed from the news, social media and even Pete Fishers Editorial was taken down. So folks this is what happens when you do the right thing and report what you see. I am a supporter of the police…always have been. I have terrific empathy for them and know they are in a tight spot right now. However, this experience has made me more than a little queasy. I won’t likely report anything else. The experience makes me want to stay in my house…until that is unsafe. I will leave you with one of the last things the police officer (who was quite nice to me and should not be judged harshly at all…he was doing his job) involved said to me “Cobourg is no longer the feel good town”.
Carol Anne, I also read your posts, at the time, as it was happening, that you were contacted afterwards and asked if you wanted Victim Services support.
Was it not at that time, that you were also updated from the officer that 2 individuals were arrested?
If that is the case, why were 2 individuals arrested if it were just fireworks?
Why does this seem like a nefarious situation and that CPS felt the need to gaslight the whole community?
You are correct, the publications disappeared. This whole situation was downplayed and then scrubbed away.
I was told that the individuals were caught no idea what happened after that as everything was removed from reporting. I also noted that a couple of days later Mississauga announced a $100,000 fine for the unauthorized use of fireworks.
Total joke! The CPS posted something like see something say something, I had theft at my place called dispatch and dispatch hung up!!!!!! How much is CPS paying for this service??? Called back to the station, filed a report, I’d be really interested to know if there is a record of my call!!! We’re are being scammed with the CPS actually providing any service in Cobourg.
Because the ‘crimes’, that are happening are mostly nuisances, it means we are doomed to expect this to continue for the foreseeable future. It is definitely unpleasant to be downtown at night. I walked downtown at around 6:30 last night, something I used to do 3 or 4 times a week. A man was screaming, “You f*#ing b*#ch, get the F*# out of here!” She yells back, “Ahhh f*# you,” while weaving up and down the sidewalk on her bike. Another woman asked me if I had any weed, I know, I’m starting to question my wardrobe. Our town is not nice to live in now, shame on me for wanting better. Am I crazy or is it way worse than it was in the summer?
Hi Mervin,
You are not alone and you are not crazy. I believe the categorizing of crimes as “petty” and “nuisances”, coupled with the lack of transparency in police reporting makes us feel like we are going mad. For one example, the Tuesday October 31st “Break & Enter”. In my opinion, this was a “Home Invasion” — which is a much more serious offence under the Criminal Code of Canada. The Victim was at home in bed, when the home door was forced open and the person subsequently assaulted. People often forget to acknowledge the mental aftermath of a home invasion, trespassing or burglary, ect. There are so many criminal acts that happen on the regular in our downtown (and now East end) that are not being documented on the CPS website. I also know people who are not reporting for fear of reprisals from released perpetrators.
I have had trespassers in my yard multiple times, people using drugs/tweaking out in front of my kids and people are just being vulgar on the regular. Police have come for trespassers but did not seem too concerned. I didn’t even call the police for the others. I watched someone doing drugs across the street from the police station a few days ago, I don’t know what is legal or not anymore. I guess this is what we are supposed to ‘welcome’.
As this situation is not likely to change any time soon Mervin you might consider getting a large breed dog. My friends in Toronto have a mixed breed that looks just like a very large black German Shepherd. Friendly with the family and visitors but not so much when out in the yard or of course if left in the house while out. Moe – over 100 lbs of fun. Otherwise my brother in law for years had a Dobe he had trained as a guard dog – again friendly with visitors if introduced – a big suck in fact. As the neighbours said to my friends you never have to worry about anyone breaking in with Moe and certainly not trespassing in their yard.
My friends on Meredith have a big dog and they were robbed while the dog slept. I will be getting a weapon of some kind and I will use it if I have to.
I can assure you Sonya neither of these dogs would have slept. I was very familiar with both of them. My brother-in-laws was trained both by him and a professional. No matter how many times you had gone to their home should you go there when they were not home that dog would not acknowledge connection with you – you were not getting in and if you did heaven help you. Otherwise if they were home and the dog was told it was ok it would sit by you for to lap up being petted until told to lay down elsewhere by the owner. Moe not trained as a gaurd dog nevertheless was appropriately protective but still friendly to invited guests. My own beloved German Shepherd of years past was just as appropriately protective – you weren’t getting in and she would protect you if someone threatened you even if she knew them them. A weapon Sonya – you may find yourself in jail.
Myself I took martial arts as a young man – nunchuks and stars are very effective but you have go know how to use them and they are also governed in their use under the law.
As I have said before, one of these criminals are going to access the wrong yard, shed or home and find a very capable person awake, prepared and justified in protecting their property and/or family. This will not be a good outcome but I feel its inevitable.
Perhaps Rob but I have seen more cases of people charged and the intruder set free. You have to get a clearance from the police, have it in an approved locked case and have training. A weapon/gun can be very dangerous in the wrong hands it can also be taken by the intruder and used on the homeowner whether it be a knife or gun. I took several years of martial arts and also well understand the law government their use. Most of these guys just need to be scared off. A large dog, not a retriever would be best. Mine was, my brother in laws was and my friends is. Otherwise you may be the one taking the trip to jail.
Dave, I understand what you are suggesting.
We have all the Crime Prevention tools suggested by CPS, and they should act as deterrents. We love dogs, but one does not fit our lifestyle.
If a person is trespassing on our property, assume with the intent to steal, we will call 911 and say trespass and give the address. We will not confront.
If a person is breaking a lock on a door or window to my home we will assume with the intent to rob and or harm us. We will call 911 say break and enter and give the address.
The police chief has said response calls average about 7 minutes, if the call is break and enter then those calls will take priority over trespass calls, makes sense.
If the door or window is accessed the security system will go off and the person may run, hopefully. I am going to try and give our police as much identifying information as possible about the individual, because they are running in my neighbourhood and others are at risk.
If the person does not run but proceeds to try and harm us during those 7 minutes of waiting for law enforcement we will try and protect ourselves.
That is what law abiding citizens do, makes sense?
If you are not in a life threatening situation and you produce a gun and use it you will be charged and face jail. Should a woman equip herself with a knife it is quite possible the weapon would be rested from her and used on her. I found martial arts training was a great boon. I was good with them. Breaking a nose I would be less likely to be charged in such a situation over stabbing or shooting.
I realize not all people desire a dog. It was a suggestion, I didn’t say everyone should get one but dogs are most effective.
Should you be out and confront an intruder or be sleeping the 7 minutes isn’t going to happen.
Besides small town ontario you are the one who brought up brought up the Florida law, not me. I have never suggested confronting an intruder or personally chasing one from my yard. A barking dog does wonders though and no confrontation as the person will look for easier pastures to intrude upon or another yard to shoot up in.
Sad to say I am afraid that may happen too. The mayor remarked, it’s all consuming. Yes, when the health and safety of my family, friends and neighbours is at risk my focus will be on the danger. Who would have thought that the Florida law, stand your ground, would ever mean anything to the law abiding citizens of Cobourg.
I see the whole thing as an emotional response and fantasy to the situations by rightly angry and fearful citizens. Impractable, unlikely and the few cases there have been elsewhere the homeowner was charged as distinguishing the difference in right of use is a split second later examined in a court of law not one to be made because you have been startled by an intruder. Not meeting the criteria of fearing for ones life. Enacted by people not used to handling guns in a state of high excitement and fear.
However I am really glad of the Blog offering many suggestions. Nice you and Sonya have shared yours but I don’t think it would be widely taken up nor practical and perhaps with direct consequences to an all ready put upon citizen.
I also noticed that crimes are not being posted on the CPS website.
I feel that CPS are normalizing crime. People breaking into your homes and garages, thefts, trespassing on private property are all things that used to be criminal.
Cobourg can’t continue with this lawlessness and disorder.
For me, this feels like an attempt to misdirect; similar in some ways to the statement about feeling uncomfortable doesn’t equate to being unsafe.
CPS can canvass however (1) the Best Western held a sold out crowd to discuss crime and drugs (2) the Mayor is having a Town hall in the largest venue in Town to discuss crime and drugs (3) many local social media groups have been launched to discuss neighbourhood crime and drug concerns (4) drug advocates have set up illegal tents to administer illegal drugs (5) the Town is proposing a Welcoming Streets initiative to curtail crime and drugs (6) countless delegations to Council and the Police Services Board to discuss crime and drugs (7) the Town, County and Province and working tirelessly to address drugs (according to Cleveland) (8) Councilors have admitted to hundred of email messages and letters from concerned taxpayers about crime and drugs (9) trap houses have been shuttered due to crime and drugs (10) the newspapers are littered with stories related to crime, violence and drugs (11) we had a daylight murder downtown and a shooting at the beach undoubtedly due to crime and drugs….etc..etc..etc..
Maybe we will learn that Cobourg has never been so safe and we are all just feeling uncomfortable (insert eye roll)
So I guess this begs the question, what are the OPP and CPS doing (independently or god forbid collaboratively) to cut the drug supply to/in Cobourg? Without the drugs, you don’t have the people addicted to drugs here and therefore don’t have them unhoused in the downtown core or causing damages and inciting fear in the citizens here. Port Hope doesn’t seem to have such a visible problem (maybe I’m wrong?), wonder why that is?
Port Hope council meeting Nov. 21st, 6:30 on e-scribe. The residents of Welcome are upset. NSCC and GWC will probably be there as GWC will get 4 cabins.
Oct 5: Safer Public Spaces was announced by Peterborough Police. Quoting Chief Betts; “We also know that much of the violent crime in our community, in the past few years, has been connected to the proliferation of illicit drugs. The drugs in our community are not only dangerous and unsafe, but they bring with them a level of violence to the people using them and by extension, to others in community. By using the Safer Public Spaces approach we hope to give the community back a sense of safety.” – Chief Betts.
Oct 11: Cobourg Chief VandeGraff announced he would be following Peterborough’s Safer Public Spaces.
Question: It has been well over a month now Chief, what are you waiting for? Enforce the existing laws and apply equally to all citizens. Law & Order is your job — we pay you to keep us Safe. We do not pay police to be Social Workers, let our good front-line police officers do the job they signed up for. Quit submissively bowing to certain “advocacy ideologies”. Stay in your lane — Law, Order, Enforcement & Safety. Not Social Work.
Excellent article by Pete Fisher: https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/11/15/editorial-time-to-get-back-to-basics-for-cobourg-police/
The Pete Fisher editorial did hit the nail on the head and whatever you think of him he does see the front line action more than most. I did note his comment about a Sergeant (150k) being paid to do the door to door survey. With resource use like that no wonder the Service has lost confidence of the public. Also Fisher outed the deal Cobourg Police made with one of their constables sent home from Police College in disgrace. He now apparently is getting paid over 100k doing a special constable job in courts.
I have read about the money laundering in casinos by reported drug importers, just saw a video on a car theft from a driveway in Oakville – the theif was plainly seen on an in car camera, major gang activitiy which has even been killing innocent citizens in broad daylight, and all the other comparitvely lesser crimes of break ins, mugging, human trafficking, guns/knives drug dealing in schools.
Jails are needed, rehab centres, mental health hospitals. Changes to immigration laws – after time served, serious offense – deport. Judge line up review – if they aren’t capable of issuing appropriate judgments which protect the citizen remove them. If they are following insane laws that we read about in a prior blog time for citizen outcry – loud and clear – we are not going to tolerate this any longer.
Should apply across the board to all criminals. We have many home grown ones as well.
In our neighbourhood an old man has been trespassing on the property for months. Urinating in public on the property, cars in the lot. He bugs people, I don’t mean he merely asks, he bugs repeatedly for cigarettes or money. Some women reported he was leaning in their car window in an intimidating manner making demands for money or cigarettes. He’s been picked up by the police for this, had statements sworn out in witness for his urinating. He is back like a bad penny every day. Still at large. He has a working spouse I am told and a comfortable home.
Is it the police not enforcing? Are they governed by such strenuous laws outlining their abilities to curb and enforce the law? Are we now governed by laws and gag orders that we can’t speak out? Or has this come about by too much citizien complaceny in the years following up. Drug encampments, people all over the street, criminal actions we are asked to tolerate. The situation I describe is mild compared to these others. Time for a complete societal overhaul!
In the summer he approached me and my daughter in the no frills parking lot, walks so close to your car you can’t move without running him over. Was wearing Tommy Hilfiger and insisting I give him money. Felt uncomfortable, unsafe and threatened. But no frills requires coins for their grocery carts so I guess he thinks it’s as good a spot as any to pressure ppl for money.
Hi Steph – Reported in Northumberland News he was charged Nov 17 at No Frills for being asked leave the No Frills area by an employee whom he then threatened to assault and refusing to leave. He had been harassing people prior in the entrance to the store. He was being held for a bail hearing Friday the 18th.
For those of us who have been affected (and victimized) by the same seven top concerns of residents within this survey area, to state that they do not align with the concerns that are raised online, is insulting…