In the middle of summer, when Council is taking a break, Cobourg resident Ted Williams sent a letter to Council asking about the transient slip policy at the Cobourg Marina. Ted believes that currently 50 slips are reserved for visitors (transients) and that some residents are unable to get a slip because of this. The marina map shows a total of 216 slips so 50 is 23% of the total. Reserving slips for transients indicates that the Town is encouraging visitors and raises the question of what is the harbour for. Is it for residents or is it a tourist attraction? And in either case, do we care enough about it to spend around $20M to fix it? Before Covid, there were plans to enhance the East pier for $4m and fix the harbour walls for around $15m but since then the cost has risen to more than $20m just to fix the breakwaters and walls.
The recent Asset management plan includes the cost to fix the harbour and no doubt staff will be asking for this in the 2025 budget. It seems that the project to enhance the east pier has died.
But the question that has not been asked and certainly not answered: do Cobourg residents want to encourage Tourists and if so, what is the benefit? Parking is now so expensive that the Highland games have moved to Port Hope – what’s next?
Note that repeated attempts failed to get Brian Geerts to comment on these issues. If he responds after this post is published, his response will be an addendum.[Update he was on vacation and has now responded – see below]
But let’s look at Ted’s letter:
Summary of letter
Download full letter from Resources
- Tourists don’t use Cobourg’s winter storage so that is lost revenue estimated at $17,000 annually
- The constant turnover of transient rentals requires additional staff
- Cobourg residents who are denied slips are taking their boats and spending power to other communities. For example, one Cobourg CS 36 sailboat owner confirmed significant weekend spending in Belleville due to lack of a local slip.
- Transient slips are often vacant during weekdays, whereas local boaters would use their slips more consistently throughout the week.
- The focus on gains of tourism revenue often overlooks the potential losses in local economic activity and marina efficiency. I believe a more balanced approach would better serve both the marina’s financial interests and the needs of Cobourg residents.
But the Marina is just one of Cobourg’s Tourist attractions. The beach, the trailer park and Victoria Hall with its concerts are others. It’s true that Tourists bring revenue to the Town – but has there been a study to determine if the cost outweighs the benefits? And do the Downtown businesses rely on Tourists or do they survive on business from residents?
Resources
- Letter from Ted Williams – listed as “correspondence” on escribe on 2 August 2024
Cobourg News Blog articles
- Harbour Repairs Cost problem – 21 September 2022
- Asset Management Plan – 26 June 2024
- Download Consultant report on East Pier Revitalization – 7 March 2022
Information on Marina
Addendum – 19 August 2024
Response from Brian Geerts
Brian is the Director of Community Services and this statement is a response to my request for comment on the above post.
- To ensure a fair and transparent process for slip allocation, staff continue to use the marina slip allocation policy to guide the balance of seasonal and transient slips at the marina.
- In general, 50-70 slips are reserved for transient use. Priority is given to seasonal requests that come in following our reservation opening day. The remaining openings are for transient on a first-come, first-served basis. Over the past few years, we’ve had 2400-3400 transient visitors per year.
- Actual slip allocation is much more complicated than just reserving a specific number, as each dock accommodates different size boats, has different power and water capabilities. We also have the ability to resell seasonal slips as transients when seasonal boats are away travelling. Slips are reallocated daily throughout the season as we optimize occupancy rates and customer needs.
- Capital update – I anticipate I will have a harbour capital project update at the September or October Council meeting.
- For the discussion regarding the balance of seasonal vs transient, and the discussion on tourism:
- People often fall into a false dilemma regarding tourism. It is not as useful to discuss whether we should have tourism or not, it is better to discuss to what degree we should firstly: use tourism as a strategy to drive direct revenue for the town to offset direct expenses and secondly: drive economic benefits for the benefit of residents and business owners in the area. Municipalities directly deliver some services for the benefit of the residents. They also strive to provide a lifestyle and economic context where the residents also invest and thrive. Tourism has important direct and indirect benefits; the marina itself provides just under a million dollars per year in secondary benefits to the town, as noted in the 2018 business plan. Tourism is recognized worldwide as a economic force; you may enjoy reviewing this information from the United Nations: Tourism Seasonality | Tool and Resources (unwto.org)
- It is helpful for municipalities to diversify their revenue sources for many reasons. Two common reasons frequently arise: taxes are generally used to fund services available to the general public. Fees are generally used to fund services that benefit the fee payer. Tourism services are typically user pay.
- Tourism is often not only a service-based strategy but a longer-term strategy to put a municipality on a larger stage. Many people I’ve talked to who live in Cobourg came here first for our tourism activities. The strategic plan outlines the detailed strategies staff employ to meet Council’s objectives more specifically.
- Preserve and promote the heritage, history and culture of Cobourg to sustain it as a vibrant and appealing destination
- Protect Cobourg’s harbour and waterfront for use and enjoyment by residents, visitors and future generations.
Print Article:
Mr. Geerts’ comments (https://cobourgblog.com/news-2024/should-cobourg-encourage-tourists#geerts) carefully ignore the only questions of importance:
Does reserving slips for tourists mean that some residents cannot rent a slip? If so, what is he doing to ensure that all residents who want a slip can rent one?
Over the past ten years, I’ve notice that a lot of people visit the Cobourg beach. I often cycle around the beach area and I’ve noticed the same pattern for years. People bring a lot of stuff to the beach. We probably need a study, but from what I notice (and I’m not a professional beach analyst) people are bringing most of what they need to the beach.
I still think the pay for play model is good for this particular beach. The grader and driver that makes the beach lovely every morning cost money. All of the employees who pick up trash and make the park and beach look pristine cost money.
Why not ask for a little help from those who enjoy the beach? We could implement a wristband solution. Hire a few monitors (similar to the TTC in Toronto). If you’re on the beach without a band, you pay a fee plus a fine. We could employee students to sell the wristbands. Town residents get a free band for the season.
I understand the execution of such a plan would take thought and isn’t as simple as it sounds, but it would be a way to generate income for the community and still let tourist and residents enjoy the beach.
Seth,
Variations of the “pay for play” idea have been discussed for years, perhaps a decade or more. Numerous pay for access models have been suggested, including your version. Fencing the beach (a la covid) making it similar to an amusement park with entrance turnstiles and gate guardians, was considered and rejected.
The beach maintenance costs are offset by the “beach” area parking fees. Not a perfect solution, but one that works for the most part, was easy to implement and is fairly easy to manage.
In the summer Seth I often see people in their bathing suits strolling on King. The restaurant patios are often full – unless they are people who came not for the beach. The small restaurant on the beach has long line ups as often does the other leading toward the beach above the marina doing a brisk business with their tables full.
Also if you look at car license plate you will note that during tourist season they are marked from many places – Alberta, Toronto, Oshawa ,Quebec so most likely some of these people are also spending time on the beach. One Cobourg resident said to me as I have heard on this blog – “those out of town tourists – they are making a mess of our beach leaving garbage” There are local people that do this as well – you don’t have to be from away to be a pig. Seen it at the fishing areas too, not all are visitors – a general lack of respect and bad manners.
If we want to be a destination (and I’m not sure that we do) than the Town needs to make it more attractive to make purchases at and near the beach. Open an area to vendors selling water floaties, t-shirts, Cobourg tchotchkes, chilled fresh fruit, shaved ice and ice cream. Have people walking around the beach selling popsicles, cold drinks, light snacks, sunscreen, towels, hats and/or sunnys. Find a vendor to braid hair or give temporary tattoos. Find a vendor to give parasail rides or speedboat tours. Rent bikes or ebikes at the beach to encourage people to take a ride through town (evict the encampers first).
And here is a hint, don’t charge $10.00 for a bottle of water or $50 for towel – BE REASONABLE. Take all forms of payment via wireless tech.
The Town of Cobourg is notorious for being a barrier not an enabler of business, so make entry into these types of businesses easier (not more difficult) – just ask Green Canoe about the Towns onerous insurance, bylaw, regulatory, compliance, fees and red tape. So much in fact that they packed up and left the beach a number of years ago.
There is existing land that can be used for development or better yet the trailers can be moved out permanently. These are quick ideas and I’m sure there are many more that are far better.
Coney Island II I can see it now ! 👎
This is a fantastic question. When are the tax paying, local-business supporting residents going to be considered?
You Got It !
With the money we are laying out on Seasonal wages , Waste management , Marketing .Policing , By Law, Beach & Marina — wear & tear and the loss of peaceful enjoyment & congestion of our own assets etc etc
The money we could save with the tax reductions that should come along with the cut backs
Heck we could subsidize the small business on King st. as Their Taxes are not getting any cheaper either .
I’d like to see some sort of ferry service to Rochester that allowed cars. It would prilovide a more direct route South for some snowbirds and for US citizens who want to visit our beautiful Country. They’d sure appreciate a nice meal or stayover in Cobourg first!
There was a car ferry service between Cobourg, Rochester, Oswego and Kingston. It failed as it was not financially viable.
There was also service between Toronto and St Catherines/Niagara on the Lake. This service also failed.
None of the lake Ontario ferry services have achieved the success of the Lake Michigan ferry service (Milwaukee-Muskegan)
I think Ted raises an important question. As far as the marina is concerned, there should be consultation and debate with:
. Marina management over management practice, communications and revenue model
. All boaters. The recreational fishermen have increased significantly, and their customers bring revenue to the Town
. CYC. They represent a declining number of total boaters, but provide important programs, like learn to sail, for local kids.
. CYC for the grossly underused facility’s they occupy on prime waterfront real estate
About a month ago I was walking in the morning with a friend along the waterfront when 2 people came off of their boat to where we were walking. The man had a huge smile on his face and asked if we were from Cobourg? He said this place is beautiful and told us they were from Rochester. I think we should welcome those travelling on their boats to stop and stay awhile. I’m sure they would do some shopping and dinning in Cobourg during their stay. I think we should encourage visitors to our beautiful town. I really don’t think locals who park their boats at the marina would likely bring in as much money to the area as visitors do. Do they shop and dine? As for parking, I think we need a multilevel parking garage built. I believe the parking lot on McGill across from Victoria park was to be developed into town houses with underground parking. This was to have happen years ago. Perhaps that space could be developed into a multilevel parking garage. It would be a great local and generate income for the town.
I believe you are dead-on with your comments about visiting boaters. Local boaters go home for dinner, visitors go to our restaurants.
Frenchy,
Have you got a study that supports your assertion?
My experience as a boater, it that transient boaters, for the most part, bring their own food/booze. Some order take-out or go to the local (walking distance) restaurants/bars.
The popular myth of boaters being walking bags of tourist money is just that: a myth. Boating is expensive (interest, fuel, maintenance, marina fees, supplies). Restaurant meals and bar hopping are near the bottom of the budget priority list
I believe the seasonal boaters contribute more to the local economy than it may appear. Most of the seasonal boaters are “local”, (Cobourg and NC). The boat is often a floating cottage. They go to the boat instead of a cottage somewhere away from Cobourg.
The local economy benefits, not from additional spending, but from spending retained here and not lost to some distant cottage area. I’m sure that Dean Marine, CT, HD, HH, Rona all appreciate the boaters’ spending on repair/maintenance materials/supplies.
My study was my own habits (and those of boaters I met in my travels) for 17+ years.
Well Bryan, my experience as boater was the opposite of yours.
If I was going to drink my own booze and eat my own food why would I travel from my town to another. Just stay at your own slip and enjoy (while saving fuel costs).
When we travelled to different towns we most certainly took in the local fare and entertainment. That’s why we travelled there. We used to stock up on our booze in Hastings because the stores were right there. They have the best fish and chips at The Captain’s Table, the best Chinese food at Jiang’s, the best pizza at Roma’s and great food and cocktails at McGillicafey’s. Probably never met guys like you in town though.
Frenchy,
Each to his own. I’m glad you enjoyed your boating lifestyle. As noted, my boating experience (C&C 39 & 48, Georgian Bay, BVI) was quite different. Many of the boaters that I met had similar experiences to mine. Some were like yours.
Since we started keeping a boat in the Cobourg Marina I most definitely spend more money in Cobourg.
Nikki,
Where is your home base?
We are local to Northumberland, we live in Cramahe Twp. Before we had the boat I did not drive into Cobourg on weekends at all.
Nikki & Frenchy,
Somewhat supports my point. Seasonal boaters do help support the local economy. Cobourg boaters, by keeping their boat in Cobourg and not berthing it elsewhere or by having a cottage somewhere. NC boaters help support the Cobourg economy by keeping their boat in the Cobourg marina and buying stuff in Cobourg.
I think seasonal boaters contribute more to Cobourg’s economy than transient boaters. I have no proof, but intuitively it feels right.
I agree with Frenchy’s “thanks for choosing Cobourg”
“I have no proof, but intuitively it feels right.”
Yet you challenged me with:
“Have you got a study that supports your assertion?”
Really?
Frenchy,
The difference is you made a statement of fact, not speculation
You wrote “Local boaters go home for dinner, visitors go to our restaurants.”
After a day out on the lake the last thing I want to do is go home and cook! We will get take out or go for dinner, that is, if anything is open! It is difficult to find somewhere to grab a bite downtown on a Sunday evening.
Seasonal is just that Like all the Rice Lake Tourist resorts open for 4 m onths of the year Closed the rest of the time and the jobs they provide disappear . Or as many have done Converted to Religious or ethnic Fractional ownership in order to survive .
Time s have changed and fiscal responsibility has to as well.
Of course you do and it is very much appreciated. Thanks for choosing Cobourg.
And you could offer a bus tour of Cobourg, starting with the encampment.
“He said this place is beautiful…”.
So we should put up a big, ugly parking garage in a conspicuous place downtown?
There goes “beautiful”.
Marilyn,
The parking lot at McGill & Queen, opposite the post office, is “conditionally” owned by the developer who also owns the “white elephant” property (auto electric) to the west. The sales agreement with the Town provides for about 60 public parking spaces to be provided. Recently, the Town granted the developer an extension to July 2025 to get the project under way.
As with Covert St, a dedicated parking garage is not financially viable. If it was, one would have already been built.
Transient boaters do spend “some” money in town. How much is hard to estimate. The Town benefits from the slip fees, fuel and sundry sales. It is not the town’s mandate to shill for local business. Let those that benefit help pay for the costs.
That parking will be occupied by resident 2nd cars to the condo project and if not seasonal parking passes and they shorted the parking once again as they have just done on the Division / Queen /Albert st corner by 40 % which is expected to park at the Queen and McGill lot and with No parking for the commercial main floor I doubt the business survival rate will be great
I think the idea of a Larger income generating Parking lot by the Beach Post office, Vic Park and the east end of King st Business would do wonders for all . But the idea that Tax paying residents should continue forking out money in Taxes just for the benefit and enjoyment of Out of Town Holidayers and Boaters , Fishermen etc is insane . The majority of us here do not own boats use the Trailer park or go near the Beach in prime season because its to crowed . Why are we paying for
others pleasure with the Neverending Tax increase and staff required to maintain it for others .
If I go golfing or Horse back ridding I pay for it No one should subsidize my hobbies or fun
so why do we pay for others ??????????.
Short answer is YES. When more visitors arrive and experience the amenities and resources in Cobourg, and hopefully gain a favorable impression, this should encourage future migration to this town when retirement is near.
We lack all services Medical and other wise Infa structure is lacking and Property Taxes are excessive compared to other area s and we have No Mall its all slip and fall shopping in the winter
Cobourg has done little to encourage tourist with the exorbitant parking fees. As resident with mobility issues it has done much to make parking in the surrounding area too expensive for me. With mobility issues walking is difficult for me but it would be nice if I were able to go to the beach over the summer once and a while without having to pay the resident fee/tax for parking. Cobourg may be a tourist town but it has a very unfriendly attitude toward tourists. Myself I discovered Cobourg by visiting a resident, discovering the many spots to fish and decided to retire here.
As far as the marina goes it is a shame to have slips that are not used when they could be filled by residents but the piers will probably disintegrate due to lack of maintenance. Poor planning when Cobourg took them over in the state they were in.
So why all the staff at the Marina . ?? Who are we employing here ,
and I have heard complaints from many that there is is no assistant help when docking
large sailing craft or in locating the space which can be difficult some times .
Loads of Garbage to deal with .
And we could save a lot of foot traffic and congestion if there was more parking nearer the Beach
rather than tourists hauling all the stuff and their children across the Marina and through the homes and condos to the east and west .
The town giving away the Post office parking lot and not taking over the Heritage Building next to it was a mistake Not only would it service the Beach but the east end of King st would be well serviced as well Possibly the North end of Victoria Park will be parking in the future after all it had been long ago as well as the PLAZA Hotel .
And just to be sure these Tourists / Beach goers are not shopping local there may be some Other tourists that are but certainly not the Beach traffic
More parking near the beach? What is your proposal? Pave Victoria Park? Once again Sandpiper is complaining about how busy it is around their centrally located waterfront condo. You might as well have moved to Times Square in New York and complained about the tourists.
Its like that down here Now only with out Policing or By Law on weekends
Noisy !
A friend of mine is a member of the Toronto multihull club and owns a 38ft Kelsall catamaran he built, so I have vicarious familiarity with the life. Cobourg is not far from Toronto and Cobourg offers advance booking. Boaters already have their weed and are largely food self sufficient unless there is a good restaurant or pub to attract them offshore. In the boating community, word spreads rapidly. The long term benefit of tourism is people may want to move here to escape Toronto.
What is missing are statistics on transient slip usage. Of the 50 total transient slips,
1. What is the overall percentage occupancy?
2. What is the weekend percentage occupancy?
3. What transient charge is needed to not lose money versus local permanent rental? Charge that.
I would like to see the Town and Economic Development departments study published for the last 10 yr sor so —on the rate of Turn over and Business Failure and Closure .
I would also like to have a real understanding as to why the Business closures direct from those Owners not the Towns version — I have been trying to get my hands on this since the Days Gone By when the Town spent a small fortune on DownTown Revitalization Program and Beautification The Turn over rate has increased steadily and faster since then
my numbers suggest close to 30 % every 2 years excluding Banks and Municipal offices .
Ted Williams has a valid point.
Other than the Trenton Marina, none of the other north shore marinas allocate more than a token few transient slips. Transient boaters are berthed in vacant seasonal slips when available, otherwise they rise at anchor.
Trenton is an oversized marina, considering the market, 375 slips. As of today Aug 12, 2024, Trenton has about 150 (40%) seasonal slips, similar to Cobourg, 56 (15%) transient slips and 165 (45%) “available” (unused??) slips. The marina’s recent annual deficit (taxpayer subsidy) is upwards of $1.6M. CFB Trenton has its own yacht club, which limits the Trenton marina numbers somewhat.
In Cobourg’s Waterfront Plan Study, the consultants noted that about 80% if the seasonal slips are rented by boaters who live within 45 minutes of the marina. Cobourg and Trenton’s market areas overlap, so it is reasonable that both have about the same number of seasonal slips.
Rob suggests a “Cobourg residents first” policy. I agree with this.
Rob’s other point regarding CYC costs is off base. The CYC’s membership is mostly social members and a small portion of the seasonal boaters. CYC fees are not part of the marina costs.
I’m of two minds on this issue…regarding the transient slips, I suspect its much to do about nothing. I think right of first refusal to residents, providing they can commit and pay a deposit in advance of February is more than fair. I doubt we have droves of local boats sailing elsewhere because of slip availability – if anything perhaps the cost of the CYC is pushing locals to other less expensive ports of call.
The pier absolutely needs to be repaired and beautified, including improvements to the lighthouse (LED lighting like the CN Towner and/or access to it). The current state of the pier is frankly very embarrassing and placing new benches on it, was just lipstick on an ugly pig. Fix the bloody thing and lets stop debating it. Will it bring tourists? Who cares…locals like nice things too. Keep it rather simple to start but scalable for improvements and additions. Limit input and community advisory groups, historical committees and special interests…sell the naming rights to a local philanthropist, Scotia Bank, RBC, Coke or Pepsi but get it done.
I would pause overt tourism advertising and redirect dollars into rebuilding our community – because we have an image problem right now.
We probably need to see some rationalization of restaurants in Town…far too many offering mediocre or similar menus and very few doing any of it properly. The same goes for cannabis stores, thrift/pawn shops and probably coffee shops. We need to understand what the revitalization of the Mall area looks like and how that can be leveraged. We need to understand what shops are going into the new development downtown and ensure they strategically satisfy the needs of the community (i.e. no pawn shops or weed shops) We need vibrant fall/winter attraction programming because Cobourg can be much more than a summer destination but we are missing that.
Rob
The residents should be primarily given primary use in boat slip ,
The beach virtually belongs to so called “tourists” during May through July and other time periods who bring all their needs with them ;never use the costly buses that the town provides for them during that major period ,leave their garbage on the streets; ;parks and beach and bring very little of benefit to the town.
Perhaps the council could give clarification to the locals on input from our local shop owners how their business’s are benefitting (or not) from tourism.