Premier Ford scheduled a Press Conference for Monday afternoon (September 23) and some hoped it would mean an announcement on Brookside – but no. However, local reporters did ask questions when it was their turn! The topic of the Press Release was that “the Ontario government is investing up to $25 million in water infrastructure to help enable the construction of 2,266 new homes in the Town of Cobourg”. That is, they will help fund water mains and waste water infrastructure for the town – this is needed particularly for the East end where Tribute has a major development at the north end of Brook Rd. This is a major grant to Cobourg and both Mayor Cleveland and MPP David Piccini emphasized how this was needed to support the large number of new homes needed for Cobourg’s growth.
To see what the politicians talked about and what Toronto reporters asked about, view the video of the full Press conference available via the link in Resources below.
Comments on Homelessness and Brookside
Questions by reporters from the Toronto Star and CBC were about Provincial and Toronto issues but local reporters asked about Brookside.
One general comment by Ford about the homeless stood out – he said: “Get an application and drop it off at one of these companies and start working. If you are unhealthy we will take care of you but if you are healthy, get off your ass and start working like everyone else is! Then we will find them housing.” MPP Piccini also pointed to the need to “not supply people with drugs which the Federal Government is doing, and weakening the criminal code. Police here pick up the same people over and over again. What about the rights of the shopkeeper who has to replace his pane of glass over and over again? … We need to do a variety of things – but there’s no one silver bullet”. (See video in link below for more).
In response to a question specifically about why did the Province not authorize the encampment to be cleaned out, Ford cited the Waterloo ruling but said he would challenge it. Piccini clarified that the Province could not clear out the encampment because of the Waterloo ruling but that this ruling only applies to Crown land and not Private property. The property has now been “claimed” on the open market. Mayor Cleveland further clarified that Cobourg has an “anti-encampment” bylaw and once Brookside is sold, it will be subject to this by-law. When asked by Cecilia Nasmith when would the sale happen, Lucas said “we are in final negotiations” but he declined to elaborate.
Resources
You tube video of Press Conference
Print Article:
Listen, the Premier may come across as a one time high school football player who sustained too many concussions but he can work a press briefing like few can. The press in attendance left with a handful of excellent sound bites/headlines but what happens next is anyone’s guess and the safe bet is very little.
The get off their a-s-s comment garnered immediate attention and some lively commentary from Liberal ideologues (was Cobourg’s DM in attendance?). As did his response to investigating the disgusting and irresponsible behaviour of the TDSB – he has shown demonstrative support for Jewish Ontarians since Oct. 7 but little action. He pumped the tires of a Cobourg barber which got a little attention on social media and even suggested paying for the haircut of a reporter in need, which got a laugh.
He knew when to turn it over to Piccini and Cleveland added a local flavour to the Brokeside encamper issue. Lots of words and innuendo but not much substance…
Politically the presser was a win to Ford Nation and Cobourg. Take the 25m – its our money anyway.
Okay, so we get 25 million, but with the addition of over 2000 homes and countless people, how do we support all of these new residents with our current facilities and infrastructure? There is already stress being put on many services:
I wonder how we will support all of these new residents. Will our taxes go up?
Congratulations, Seth! You’ve identified a few of the reasons why growth is BAD for Cobourg’s current residents. The only good news is that most of these additional homes will be priced similarly to the current Cobourg average rather than being “affordable” as some on this blog appear to favour; the newcomers will pay the same high and ever increasing taxes as the rest of us.
New Residents are good because they increase the tax base. All your concerns can be paid for by the increased tax base of these new homes.
New Encampments, however, are bad. They are a strain on the tax base as we pay for security, fencing and whatever else the town decides to give them for free.
Will the tax base pay for health care practitioners, new facilities that cost millions, and encourage large corporation to open stores – nope.
Yes, Concerned Cobourg Resident, new residents slightly increase the tax base. However, the increase is not enough to cover the costs for their new services. If they paid enough then our taxes would decrease each year rather than double-digit increases!
Ken I can finally agree with you, new development costs any municipality money in the long run. We knew this decades ago with a classical study called the “Brighton Report”
You should know that when “Area C” the land now being built on with Provincial money was approved, the Official Plan of the Day stated that there was capacity for 11,000 more persons within the existing boundaries if we infilled instead of building on greenfields. Guess what the Council of the day approved – another historical mistake.
A major industry is needed to offset the current taxes in Cobourg
I do not believe the Province has the jurisdiction to appeal the Waterloo decision but regardless, it was rendered in January 2023 and the Regional Municipality of Waterloo decided in February 2023 that it would not appeal. If Doug can appeal he has sat on his A-S-S for more that a year and a half. I do not believe he even knew about the Brookside encampment until yesterday.
OK let’s keep the topic on topic – the news about the slush money going to the Town to pay for the infrastructure that the developers usually pay for.
And don’t get off about what a gift horse this is for Cobourg when as Mike Harris infamously told us “There is only one taxpayer.”
I would like to know why, if Cobourg has religiously adhered to the principle that “Developers pay for Development, for the past few decades, why should we be jumping up and down and praising the Mayor and Staff for applying for Ford’s giveaways to developers – how do we know that were the drivers of this money and not Mr Ford’s well known affinity for his developer friends. And why should we be welcoming houses into the community that the majority of the community cannot afford to buy.
Back to the topic that this thread has morphed into – the work ethic and problems of the residents of the encampment – I just hope we can be pleased to praise the amount of Provincial money that will flow into the community to serve those residents with the health services and housing needs that are required to eliminate the encampment, when it arrives.
I will not hold my breath for that one!!
Can only suggest what Cobourg council did or didn’t do 30 or so years ago may not be relevant in todays world of development charges, no development charges , grants, no grants etc… The rules seem to change every 4 to 8 years!
Any money from the province or the feds should be considered a win these days. If this funding improves Cobourg’s municipal infrastructure without an increase to the town portion of our tax bill I guess council and staff did its job in this case.
Hopefully Northumberland County council and staff have the same success in getting provincial and federal “slush money” to assist to “eliminate” the encampment!!!
This one taxpayer isn’t holding his breath either!
Obviously you didn’t listen to the Previous Mayors Henderson or Brocanier, Mark, it was their mantra, only two years ago not thirty!
Besides, development charges and their rationales have been around for decades the only thing that has changed in the past years have been the charges, always upwards, and the rule changes put in by Doug Ford two years ago that benefitted developers and certainly not Municipalities.
Its been proven that the average New Home Price
carries between $200 & $300 K in Lot Levies , Development Charges , Permit & Service cost etc etc which all goes to the Municipality So why is Cobourg so far in Debt and never ending Tax increases ???????
Ben,
Some good points.
However, the money is on the table. If the Town doesn’t take it another town will.
Hold your nose and suck it up.
$25M is better in Cobourg’s hands than some other town’s
I understood that Tribute was to be paying for a good Portion of this required water and sewage sys upgrade Yet according to a statement from Mr Giddings in council before the summer break the reason LUCI was at Council with its hand out for another $8 Mil was due to the fact Tribute had not met the agreement due to Lagging sales & closings .
When is the Provincial Money coming and in what increments and time lines & will any go to the west end where sewage treatment facilities and capacities are Maxed out and holding up other Developers
Not sure if it was a slight slip of the tongue or a slip of confidentiality by Dougie, but he made a slight reference to the sale of Brookside to Blommers Chocolates. I know that Blommers has a “connection” to World’s Finest Chocolates in Colborne, but wondering if Brookside is “possibly” an added acquisition OR an instead of the Colborne location. (Blommers has recently closed its’ Chicago headquarters.)
Our Mayor on the other hand, seemed rather tight-lipped about the WHO & WHEN completed sale of Brookside. Hmmm….
I heard that Fleming College bought it. Can’t find a source to substantiate the rumour.
I was under the impression that Fleming College had put in a bid to buy last fall, but it fell through.
Oops! I can’t seem to edit my above post, because I meant to refer to the town of Campbellford with regard to World’s Finest Chocolates, and not Colborne.
Sorry about that.
Housing: We can severely restrict STR (short term rentals) through business licensing, restrictions on location, and number. We can toughen eviction laws and allow police services to attend and carry out evictions. (This would encourage landlords, seeing that they would not be stuck with forever deadbeats).
Encampments: Remove inhabitants to County owned property.
Addiction: More money, more medical help. If the Province can give millions of taxpayer funds to build infrastructure for companies like Tribute, it can pony up more cash for addiction treatment, and yes, involuntary incarceration for treatment.
I am so tired of this. From our Council, CPS, Province…all totally useless.
Please add harsher treatment of drug dealers to your laundry list. Duterte was directionally correct.
Firstly good job Mayor Cleveland and MPP Piccini securing the funding needed to support municipal infrastructure improvements for the Town of Cobourg!
Still waiting to hear Northumberland County’s plan to deal with the encampment if/when it is dismantled! Not holding my breath.
Has the province started the process to challenge the Waterloo ruling ??? I suspect not so be prepared that those who refuse to accept the assistance at 310 Division will encampment somewhere else in Cobourg on “Crown” land once Brookside is sold , and the cycle of BS continues.
PS. For those in the encampment that are healthy and able to work , why not try it? it maybe the start to a better life!!
The Waterloo Ruling was not appealed by the municipality so the Province cannot appeal it. What the Province needs to do is pass legislation to address encampments province wide. There would most certainly be a court challenge, but they could invoke the Notwithstanding Clause for the 4th time since 2018 to get it done. If they can use it for Campaign Financing they can certainly use it for Health and Public Safety?
Mr Bisson. The ideas and suggestions you have put forward over the past year on dealing with the encampment, drug and crime situation in Cobourg are excellent.
You clearly get what is important with the Town and its residents as priority number One.
I hope you become part of the Leadership Team at the next election in two years, preferably a major role.
Premier Ford should have visited the encampment BEFORE he made the “get off your ASS” comment, then he might have realized that they are not able to hold a job and no construction company could possibly risk the liability of employing them.
We also need to stop developing “out” onto farmland (one of Ontario’s most valuable resources) and instead develop “Up” thus creating affordable housing for all.
Did anyone ask for provincial assistance to fix the east pier
is the east pier not a federal matter?
From the information provided by commenters in other post Cobourg took over the pier/harbour. There may have been some federal funding included with the deal. Cobourg is responsible for it.
Sorry, I had forgot the Town Had Taken On The Pier Boondoggle. Should Have Been Left To The Feds To Maintain?
” … Cobourg has an “anti-encampment” bylaw … “
Once Brookside is private property the encampment can be cleared. But Cobourg also has an amended park use bylaw that lets the county allow encampments in town parks. Where will the encampment go? Surely some of the town and county employees and/or elected representatives have thought about this.
“ If you are unhealthy we will take care of you but if you are healthy, get off your ass and start working like everyone else is! Then we will find them housing.” “
Another populist piece of BS!
How many healthy people in Cobourg already off their arses working in the community can afford to buy any of the 3000sf, three storey mansions that are being built in the Tribute site?
These megahouses are being sold to the people moving out of TO with cash in their pockets from the sale of their houses in an overheated housing market. They contributed to the problem on TO and now are doing the same in Cobourg.
Well said!
You are correct that someone earning $100K/yr, after EI/CPP, income tax, sales tax, property tax, and costs of living, will never own a mega-home. The new rules announced by Freeland of relaxed 30 year mortgage and lower down payment confirm this. A 30 year mortgage ensures wage slavery and paying double the cost of the house over time.
The real estate winners from Toronto fled from a problem not of their making. Blame foreign investment, of which Toronto happily scoops 15% rather than banning. Immigration also plays a part.
How are the mega-home owners turning Cobourg into Toronto?
Ben totally agree with you ….. some of the new homes have garages larger than total square footage of old homes …. The developers need to give their heads a shake and check out the homes that were built in PH and Cobourg in the 60’s ….. 900-1000 sq ft homes with 3 bedrooms and a one car garage (carport) with an unfinished basement. They can still do it on smaller lots. How about allowing 4-6 plex homes ( Ford has many built and still in existence in Etobicoke where he grew up) …. We need a major shift here.
Give me a break,
There may be smaller war time homes and 1000 sq ft units in Etobicoke, but certainly not near the area where Dougie grew up near the Kingsway area. Pretty posh. In 2022 he sold his home for about $2.7M and moved into his late mother’s home nearby.
Developers are not interested in small (1000 sqft) houses: small profit, limited market. Better to build for the main market: GTA expats with $$$$ falling out of their pockets. Better for the Town also. Higher taxes and lower servicing costs per unit
Many people would very much appreciate their own stand alone home. They were built all over Toronto then suburbs – Scarborough in particular. My father-in-law purchased his own, a returning war vet in the early 50s. A 3 bedroom stand alone home with large yard, much larger than what is often offered today. Yes he had to finish the downstairs, build a brick garage on his days off and he re-shingled the roof when it was needed many years later on his days off from his 6 day a week job. Purchased on the earnings of a single family bread winner as were the other homes in the vicinity – populated by people in occupations such as bread man home delivery, small hardware store owner, bartender and the most elite on the street a Bell Canada man – all were war vets. Good solid homes at affordable prices. I am sure there would be many very happy to have such a home with a much more affordable price tag.
I agree. Build smaller homes like they used to build in the 50’s and 60’s. We do not need anymore “luxury” townhomes, that no one will buy. Just look at the subdivision next to the 401, they’re mostly for rent at a price that is ridiculous, 3,000.00 a month. Cobourg salaries can’t sustain that kind of cost.
Tucker, $3000 per month is not “ridiculous” but is an incredible bargain. Consider that a $750K mortgage requires payments of $4000 per month + property taxes + insurance + repairs + …
Developers build what they can sell at the best profit rather than what some without skin in the game think should be built.
Cuba has all-inclusive resorts available for about $700/week CDN …. free WIFI, food, beverages, laundry on-site…if you are a remote worker this is a far better option than renting in Cobourg.
I wouldn’t pay 300.00 a month to live in those townhouses next to the 401. The noise is incredible. Anyone taking on a mortgage that requires 4000.00 a month is just plain stupid. Those sleepness nights and credit card debt just to pay their expenses must drive them to drink, if they don’t already.
That’s what they rent for. $300×14 residents per household =$4200 a month
More would enter the home ownership market who are currently renting if homes were built at more affordable prices. It is only the last 10 years that homes began going for prices that keep one enslaved and many broke for the rest of their lives. A woman I know purchased a home just before the nonsense began – the only family bread winner with two children, an a non financially contributing spouse purchasing a smaller home for $225,000 in Toronto. Affordable. She has renovated over the years after purchasing in 2010 just before the market went nuts. There are many more like her if the homes were available.
Dave, $225K detached homes are unlikely to return to Toronto! The development charge alone is now $137,846. (https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/8fc1-DC-Rates-Effective-June-6-2024-for-web.pdf)
Unfortunately, the development charges in Cobourg are only $28,252 or $38,964 in Cobourg East. Not nearly sufficient to cover the additional costs of growth. Worse, there are reductions for rental properties. (https://www.cobourg.ca/en/resources/BLDG-Attachments/2024_Development-Charges-Fee-Schedule-effective-Jan-4—Dec-31_2024-002.pdf)
What would the break even dev charge be?
I don’t know the answer but I think it spans between “well run town” and “profligate spending on stupid stuff”. Servicing is to the lot line, as I understand it, and the developer takes it from there.
Encouraging rental properties seems reasonable to avoid a situation such as in Vancouver where the people who make the economy run cannot afford anywhere to live.
If those who levy taxes are equivalent to someone with an extreme weight problem demanding more chocolate bars, then it is best to try and control their diet.
If decades from now people cannot afford the large houses then, as is the federally encouraged trend in Toronto, houses will be quartered up as apartments. Stroke of a pen / click of a mouse.
https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2023/05/toronto-city-council-greenlights-multiplexes-yellowbelt.52434
Will any ledger ever balance? No, Canada’s debt keeps increasing 🙂
The new inflated rates did not take place until a couple of years later Ken tripling and quarupling the price of a home in Toronto and elsewhere. It is predicted the carbon tax will more than double in the next few years with predictions it will devastate the economy if left under current party thereby creating people with lost jobs abandoning their very expensive homes in mass just like 2008 in the U.S.
Getting people into skilled trades with the very express purpose of home building is present creating a much greater supply – supply and demand the price will fall.
Immigration should a change in Federal government is to come and shortly being curtailed until the country can recover again creating further supply of homes.
Unlikely you say home prices will drop severely Ken – the clouds on the horizon say differently. Development fees will change in a slide rule effect as conditions change. Hopefully it will not be the scenario as in 2008 when the bottom fell out and homes stood abandoned, vacant as the people who lose their jobs walk away.
You would have a hard time convincing a person who works minimum wage and is trying their best to make a go of it that $3000/mth. is a bargain. You know, Ken not all people make $100,000 or more a year. There are people out there that are trying their best to stay off welfare, unlike the encampment people. I have a question for you, Are you a land lord? , because you sure sound like one
No, Tucker, I am not a landlord and never have been.
With the problems of rent controls and the lengthy delays at the Landlord and Tenant Board for evictions, owning rental property does not seem a reasonable investment.
Paying $3000/month is a bargain compared to what a reasonable charge would be considering all expenses. Being reasonable is not related to whether it is affordable! An investor cannot finance a $750K house and cover expenses on only $36000 per year in rent. $4500 to $5000/month would be a fair rent to cover costs.
If your not then you are not living in the same world as people who have to survive on low wages. You just don’t get it and until you have experienced the real world out there , there is not much use trying to explain what “ordinary people” go through to survive.
Incredible bargain! You’ve got to be kidding. The new condo’s on Tremaine St. are going for $3600/mth + $150/mth for parking. This is not Vancouver Ken, this is a working town with normal people trying to get by on low wages. Only GREEDY land lords would charge that much.and think it’s an ” incredible bargain “
I agree with Premier Ford with regard time for many to begin working. This country has undergone a tremendous change. I am aware of people here on ODSP that display no inability to work. They do other type work instead as ODSP allows $1000 a month of earned income on average over a year. Some will argue this saying all disabilities are not apparent but in seeing these people and often their use of the food banks after first ordering take out and eating in every restaurant in town while their funds last then accessing the food bank taking away from people that truly need this resource it is time for accountability. I see adult children living at home with no disability, they hold jobs for a couple of months and even the parents state they don’t like any job they get so they quit. Unfortunately the parents are unable to institute within their child the need to work and be contributing, independent earning adults as they continue through the years in this pattern through their 20s, 30s and beyond. It is not just the encampment people that need to realize their own responsibility for their lives. Benefits have been too freely given through a wide variety of social programs many of them Federal. Have a nice day Mr. Ford – we need more plain speaking.
I should add as well as work “under the table” while collecting benefits including labour, home repairs – physically demanding.
As you mention ,Dave, benefits are too freely given without a watchdog in place. Some of these funds could easily be diverted into an education and support system to aid folks to learn home budget management . I have a personal connection with someone with challenge and his ” workers” are present to instruct, plan, and engage through daily life. Many of these folks are crafty enough to supplement Government funds under the radar and there is no one following up. I realize that it is easier to quiet the issue with a money flow and let it lie, also less expensive, as communities then build food banks and outreach to supplement the Government benefits. This quickly has become a way of life for many…entitlement with little respect for the resource, ….our taxes.
The Canadian Armed Forces are so short in recruiting citizens that Landed Immigrants are now permitted to fill the ranks.and are doing so.
That speaks volumes itself of today’s values.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/permanent-resident-military-applications-enrolment-1.7116469
As successful societies continue through the years Bill past history has show them to lose what values that built them to the pinnacle of success, starting a downward slope which we have been on for some time clearing the way for takeover whether it be from without or within.